Help with Winegard 3100 - cband on small dish project

[ray224000]

Hey guys and gals;

I must remain politically correct!

I picked up a Winegard 3100 1m dish and would like to test out cband. I've had Titanium C1-PLL and CS1 scalar just sitting in the garage for the last couple of months and I feel it is time.

I worked on mounting the dish and getting the hardware up last night and worked on the coaxle this evening.

The first and only problem I foresee in this project is the cband lnbf holder. The bracket that comes with the scalar does not seem to fit the lnbf arm. Another words it looks like I have to do some modification on the bracket holder to attach the Titanium C1-PLL. I've kind of drawn a blank on how to move forward.

Does anyone have any firsthand experience with this dish and the problem I attempted to describe?

 

[Titanium]

The flat scalar provided with the C1PLL is for prime focus reflectors with FD ratio .3-.4 not the offset reflector with FD ratio .6-.7. So the conical scalar like the Titanium Satellite CS1 is the correct match to your dish type. The CS1 includes a 62mm clamp that could be adapted to place the feedhorn at the correct matching centered height, aiming and distance from the reflector.

Start by mounting the standard 3100 KU clamp and measuring the center height and distance from the reflector. Maybe make a template so flatbar, bolts/washers or other hanger clamps can be fashioned.

 

[T134]

Unless I am reading it wrong it sounds like he has the CS1 already. As I recall those Winegard 1 meters were always problems for C-band small dish. I don't think they are actual 1 meters but the real problem that I recall is that they have a goofy LNB arm. Its like oblong or rectangle or something where the standard C-band conical scalar clamp won't bolt up to it.

I had to do some digging back to 2010 on this. I did some experimenting with a setup to adapt C-band small dish kits to widearm dishes. Have a look at this thread, it might work for you or give you ideas how to get it done. http://www.fridgefta.info/forums/showthread.php?tid=12715#axzz3IbHVRqWd

 

[Titanium]

Great project link!

 

[beavs2112]

I picked up a Winegard 3100 1m dish and would like to test out cband.
I worked on mounting the dish and getting the hardware up last night and worked on the coaxle this evening.
The first and only problem I foresee in this project is the cband lnbf holder.
Does anyone have any firsthand experience with this dish and the problem I attempted to describe?

Hi ray224000. I have over the last few months experimented with my Winegard 1.0m for c-band. The general consensus seems to be that 1.0m dishes are undersized for mini budding. a 1.2m would be better.
i'm not suggesting abandoning the project .... its fun to experiment .... just trying to suggest an alternate view. don't forget some of the strongest c-band signals on 99w are recently gone. you didn't mention if you're motorizing. the winegard is a very heavy dish as you know which puts a lot of strain on a ku motor. I had mine on a stab hh120 & it still struggled near the ends of the arc. so I gave up on that setup and picked up a channel master/skyware global 1.2m and modified a spare c-band polar mount to accept it. very similar to this thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/another-channel-master-polar-mount-attempt.201238/ here's what I did. I didn't like the way crackts solution put the dish so far away from the mount. it might vibrate a lot in high wind areas.
try putting the winegard on a polar mount. I live in Canada so i'm not sure if impakt still has polar mounts https://www.impaktproducts.com/Mounts-and-Pipes-p-1-c-305.html if not find an old 7 foot mesh dish and use the mount.
have fun

 

[catamount]

It's been about five years or so since I used my wineguard for Cband. I remember hitting the dish and the bottom cband bracket snapped.

What I did was use the bottom bracket for 40 mm ku band and top bracket from the Cband. Had to just drill bigger holes in the Ku band bracket. This worked fine. When I got the dish it came with a 20mm bracket, which I still have. But I know the 60mm cband bracket should work. Just a matter of placement and some dremel work.

Catamount

 

[ray224000]

Unless I am reading it wrong it sounds like he has the CS1 already. As I recall those Winegard 1 meters were always problems for C-band small dish. I don't think they are actual 1 meters but the real problem that I recall is that they have a goofy LNB arm. Its like oblong or rectangle or something where the standard C-band conical scalar clamp won't bolt up to it.

I had to do some digging back to 2010 on this. I did some experimenting with a setup to adapt C-band small dish kits to widearm dishes. Have a look at this thread, it might work for you or give you ideas how to get it done. http://www.fridgefta.info/forums/showthread.php?tid=12715#axzz3IbHVRqWd

Joe...you are correct. It does have the goofy arm. I appreciate the link. More homework for the weekend! Thanks

 

[ray224000]

The flat scalar provided with the C1PLL is for prime focus reflectors with FD ratio .3-.4 not the offset reflector with FD ratio .6-.7. So the conical scalar like the Titanium Satellite CS1 is the correct match to your dish type. The CS1 includes a 62mm clamp that could be adapted to place the feedhorn at the correct matching centered height, aiming and distance from the reflector.

Start by mounting the standard 3100 KU clamp and measuring the center height and distance from the reflector. Maybe make a template so flatbar, bolts/washers or other hanger clamps can be fashioned.

I did not realize there was more than one. Thanks for the information.

 

[ray224000]

Currently I'm using the 1m to get my chops wet on the project. I could not pass up this deal, "free", so I grabbed it. Eventually I'll move up to the 10ft I have in my garage. But until I move to our country property, I'll have to comply with the HOA rules.

As for my intentions with the dish; I'm not picky with what I may find when the dish is setup. It is just about the hunt. Besides I was getting bored and I needed something to do.

One more thing, I plan to leave it fixed; no motor. There are too many obstacles to work around in the back yard.

Hopefully I'll have time to dabble with the dish this weekend.

 

[ray224000]

I spent yesterday, racking my brain on how to align the focal point of the C-Band LNB. I referred to Joe's tread which was helpful. However, the winegard 1m presents its own set of unique issues trying to manipulate the focal point.

I used the LNBF which is provided with Titanium C1-PLL and CS1 combo. I attached to a 3/4 in board cut to fit from the bend of the arm which extended out beyond the end of the arm. The initial problem is the angle of the c-band lnbf is not parallel with the angle of the ku lnbf so therefore the focal does not line up. While I knew this would not probably work the first time, I was able to expand my understanding. Too me a visual is priceless. It is work in progress!!!!

So, it would not be a total loss; I wrapped out the install and tested with Ku to make sure everything was fine. Everything works like it is suppose too.

If the weather improves a bit, I will get back up and take another shot at getting the C-band Lnb lined up properly.

 

[KE4EST]

Thanks for the update.

 

[ray224000]

Not much of an update on my progress. Between work , weather and family, my progress has been impeded.

I have managed to align the lnb on the focal point of the dish. Now I have to find the right distance from the focal. Of course you've probably figured out that I have not had much luck. That is alright! It is about the education of the process.

Even if I am able to manage to secure a signal the C-band lnb is designated for my 10 ft when I am able to erect it at our county property.

In the mean time, family will be gone on Saturday, work will not interfere and hopefully the weather will hold up for another session at SMALL DISH 101.

 

[pacificrim]

I didn't see you say what you are using for a signal meter. I highly recommend using one. I have a 1.2m minibud and connected my meter to the C1w and set my meter to either the PR mux or Lesea and slowly waved the lnb around until I got a lock, which happens pretty quickly. Them I knew where my mount needed to be and how high or low. Granted, mine is a sidecar.

 

[ray224000]

I have a cheap Radio Shack signal meter which I have not used yet. I still have some fine tuning with the do-it-yourself lnb bracket.

Actually I have not had a lot of time to devote with getting this done.

Excuse, excuse!!!!

 

[Titanium]

That meter will be of little use as it only shows signal strength of anything the dish is aimed at. Recommend taking a small TV and receiver tuned on the LESEA transponder (4000 H 26400) to locate the satellite. Once the satellite is coming in, switch the TP over to KCHF (3789 H 1666) to optimize. This transponder will probably be one of the weaker TPs that your micro dish will receive.

 

[ray224000]

Titanium....I use my little tv and receiver when I aim the dish......the radio shack meter is useless....

 

[ray224000]

I finally got my dish tuned in on 99w C-band today. It will require some additional fine tuning but I manged to lock in a signal on 3 transponders and currently receiving more than a dozen channels. I will provide specifics hopefully by the weekend and will take a few pictures to show how I managed to do this.

The bend in the LNBF arm made it difficult and definitely provided a challenge to say the least.

Thanks to everyone that provided input. I had to mix and mingle different ideas to get to where it is now.

 

[beavs2112]

thanks for the update. nice to hear a success story C-band rules!

 

[danristheman]

Welcome to the club the mini micro bud club please post pics and test results from what you get in. If you need help just give me a call. Good job.

 

[ray224000]

Once I do my final adjustments, I'll do just that. I had about ten minutes tonight before it got too dark to see. Hit something on the only attempt.