Help needed with a SWiM32 Operation

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Looking for help with a SWiM32 (SWM32RO-09) I suspect that if help comes from this site, it will come from someone in the members only Installers Forum who someone might direct a kind soul here. Thus far, based on my experience, most have only seen pictures of a SWiM32 online and because the documentation does not really exist (at least to mere mortals such as myself), its like trying Bones trying to save the life of a Klingon in the beginning of one of the Star Trek Movies. He might be doctor, but they have never operated on that anatomy, one only guess.

First the setup.

Various Sonora Design Equipment supplying the LNB voltage.

Currently this is fed into a (WB616) 6x16 powered Multiswitch. (I have also used a 6x8 non-powered Multiswitch/WB68, which also works).

Currently 2 SWiM 16s are fed off the Multiswitch and work perfectly (though obviously they cannot normally see each other in this setup).

Again, this all this works as expected.

Moving to SWiM32 to replace the 2 SWiM 16s, however, starting by plugging in the SWiM 32 in place of one of the SWiM 16s while setting up and testing.

I have a (1) 24V - Model 3A502DA22 Power Supply that is needed to power the SWiM32.

I do NOT have a 20V - Model EPA-241DAN20 Power Supply. Every piece of information I can find on the web tells me that this is NOT needed if the LNBs are powered by another device (in this case, the Sonora Design Equipment). This makes sense as the SWiM32s are designed to be put into a rack, there is clearly no reason for every SWiM32 needed to power the LNBs.

There are 6 LEDs on top of the SWiM32 which are labelled signal level. These all blink randomly. As the documentation on the SWiM32 is virtually impossible to find, this pattern tells me nothing.

On the outputs of the SWiM32, any IRD/TVs connected on the same leg do not receive a signal and show an error as such on the screen (771 search for satellite signal). Meanwhile, all connected on the same splitter CAN see the other IRDs via Whole Home / DECA, though they cannot receive a satellite signal.

Calls to Solid Signal have their techs telling me the reason the lights are blinking is because the LNB have no power and that I need the 20V - Model EPA-241DAN20 Power Supply. Of course, the IRDs using the SWiM16 off the same multiswitch tell me the LNB are operating normally and this is not the issue. And they actually sell the device.

As such, this device is as mysterious as UFO. Actually, more people have seen a UFO in person than installed a SWiM32 apparently.

But thats where I am now.

Can anyone who handles advanced installations and equipment such as the SWiM32 tell me what exactly the 6 LED indicating Signal Level should look like - and what random blinking and/or error codes mean? I did find a 3 page PDF from PDI-SAT labelled SWiM32 Installation Guide. It really only 3 pages of diagrams (not telling anything that isn't known) and does not explain what the 6 LEDs indicate or troubleshooting.

Any other insight that you might have would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

If you are replacing the two swm16s with a swm 32, you should just replace the 6x8 and two 6x16s with the one 32. 4lines straight off the dish into the 32, then the rest of your receivers into splitters, btw, im not posotive, but i dont believe all 32 channels talk to eachother on the swm32, i think its split into two 16 outputs.

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[raoul5788]

Yes, the two sides of the swm32 are independent. I thought you needed a 29 volt power inserter, not 24 volt. I know you can use a larger than necessary one, but not the other way around.
Edit: Looking at the solidsignal site, it looks like you have to use two power inserters. They show a 24 volt and 20 volt model that comes with the switch. Maybe the 29 volt model is only for the swm8 or swm16.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

That you for the input.

I have the unit operating now, thanks to the techs at PDI-SAT.

The unit operates as 4 individual SWM8s, not as 2 individual SWM16s. I was aware of this going in and am installing splitters to distribute the DECA signal to each cloud.

As noted in the original post, the sales and tech support at Solid Signal are very clueless and very wrong when it comes to this unit. You can pretty much ignore everything they say about a SWiM32.

The unit needs only a signal 24VDC Adapter. It does not need a 29VDC unit nor does it need the second PSU (20VDC) unit if the LNBs are powered by another device - as I had originally read. They are wrong about the need for the 20VDC PSU as its operational now without the 20VDC unit. As thus, I am sure about this.

For future reference if anyone searches, the 6 LEDs on the SWM32 can either be off, red or green. They were flashing random red when I first posted. As details of this unit were unknown at that time, I was unaware they could also go green.

Each LED corresponds to one of the 6 inputs (normal 4 plus 2 flex ports). Flashing Red shows no signal. Solid Green = Signal. Without using the Flex Ports, I show 4 Solid Green and 2 flashing red. Great quick and easy way to make sure you have a signal from the Dish without pulling out a meter.

I was not getting a signal from the SWiM32 originally and that is why all were flashing red. On a hunch confirmed by PDI-SAT, I disconnected the WB616 and fed the SWiM32 direct. That's when it all worked properly.

I will speculate that the WB616 does not feed an output signal on taps that do not show voltage to power the LNB, using that to detect a RID. As the SWM32 does not require the 20VDC power supply, there was no voltage from the SWM32 to power the WB616 - and that is why the unit was not getting a signal. At some point I might try and see if a WB68 works prior to the SWM32, but its not that high on my priority list right now.

There are also 2 LEDs to indicate power. One lights green when the SWiM32 gets power. The other supposedly lights when a 20VDC PSU is applied. As I do not have that PSU, that LED is off.

Also for reference, the SWM32 is not as hot as the SWM16. In an air conditioned room temp controlled room, the SWiM16 (actually both) measured 116F. In the same place, the SWM32 only measures 94F with a Fluke IR Thermometer.

Again, thanks to PDI-SAT for giving me info on 6 LEDs on the SWiM32 and hopefully this will serve as a reference to anyone else searching for info.

 

[raoul5788]

I'm glad you got it working.

 

[SolidSignal]

Sorry I didn't see this until now. Everything that PDI-SAT told you is right but there is one more piece of information. The SWM-32's 6 LEDs will go solid red if you are overamplifying. This is a common occurrence when you are using something like a SA6AL trunk amplifier.

 

[raoul5788]

So because you have the Sonora providing power, you only need one power inserter, but if you were using the SWM32 by itself, you would need two, is that correct?

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

So because you have the Sonora providing power, you only need one power inserter, but if you were using the SWM32 by itself, you would need two, is that correct?

Really anything that can power the LNB (not just the Sonora) could be used. In theory, a WB616 Multiswitch (which is powered) should be able to power the LNB, but as shown in my experience, that will not work as it apparently shuts off the tap if no current is detected on that tap.

But yes, your theory is correct - something needs to power the LNB. If I did not have something powering it, I would need the additional 20VDC PSU on the SWM32.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

Sorry I didn't see this until now. Everything that PDI-SAT told you is right but there is one more piece of information. The SWM-32's 6 LEDs will go solid red if you are overamplifying. This is a common occurrence when you are using something like a SA6AL trunk amplifier.

Luckily, I measured the feed with a meter to determined I really did not need a SA6AL trunk amplifier.

I only installed a Sonora SEQ509 Slope Equalizer and a Sonara SD PI-6S Polarity Locker and used those for 4 months with the 2 SWM16s, so I knew they were working properly.

 

[SolidSignal]

Good to hear. Most residential folks don't consider a trunk amp, but most commercial folks should.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

This is probably more of a question for the installers thread, or to be talked in a pm, but i would love some information on how amps and polarity lockers actually work and how theyre installed, ive never even seen a setup, the only nice commercial dtv setups ive seen are all legacy ka/ku with 6x8s run in paralel with dual power passing 5-2300mhz splitters.

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[ZandarKoad]

So a plain old 6x8 with two SWM16s is a poor man's SWM 32? Am I reading that right?

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

Yea pretty much a 6x8 will send all signals equally, but a better idea is to use dual powerpassing 5-2300mhz splitters and run the two 6x16s in parallel, not in series. Just make sure to send the right signals to the right inputs. Example: line 1 off ka/ku (any line) goes to splitter, outputs of splitter both go to input 1 of each 16. 2nd line from odu to splitter, both outputs to 2nd input on each 16, same for 3rd and 4th. Im not sure about splitting the 95sat into flexports but id assume its the same.

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[SomeRandomIdiot]

So a plain old 6x8 with two SWM16s is a poor man's SWM 32? Am I reading that right?

In essence, yes. I did that since last year before moving to the SWM32 when I picked one up for a very low price.

The SWM16s do allow sharing between all 16 ports where the SWM32 only share between the 8, so adjustments need to be made there.

The SWM32, like the SWM8, has an input for a TV antenna that can go to all 32 channels, but then you would need your IRDs hard wired on a network, if you go that route.

As for the post that followed your/above this reply about splitting 2 6x16s to give you 32 channels, could be done, but it would not give you any SWM channels, but essentially a DirecTV "Classic" Multiswitch configuration for 32 channel outputs, that would not work with MRV required HR34 et al, as well as 2 feeds needed for a HR2x DVR.

 

[ZandarKoad]

The SWM32, like the SWM8, has an input for a TV antenna that can go to all 32 channels, but then you would need your IRDs hard wired on a network, if you go that route.

As for the post that followed your/above this reply about splitting 2 6x16s to give you 32 channels, could be done, but it would not give you any SWM channels, but essentially a DirecTV "Classic" Multiswitch configuration for 32 channel outputs, that would not work with MRV required HR34 et al, as well as 2 feeds needed for a HR2x DVR.

So I gather the 6x16 is not the same as a SWM16. It kind of read like that a little earlier. I don't think I've ever seen a 6x16. Does the SWM16 have a in port for a TV antenna? And why do you say you would need your IRD's networked? Is that just to let the IRDs share the MRV? I my setup, I'd be hooking up Genies exclusively. So I'd be breaking apart 5 tuners with Band Stop Filters. Sharing MRV across the trunks isn't important to me.

... Now that I think about it, the SWM16 has two SWM8 ports on it, correct? I'm fairly certain they share MRV (as mentioned elsewhere). There is 16 tuners, so in theory you could hook up three Genies... But how would that work if you have two ports? One Genie on each port... Then how do you use the remaining 3 tuners on each port for a third Genie? Or is that not possible?

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

when i said 6x16 earlier i meant swm16 in my head lol, sorry for the confusion, ill edit my origional post when i get access to a pc, doesnt look like i can edit a previous post from mobile.

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[SomeRandomIdiot]

So I gather the 6x16 is not the same as a SWM16.

Correct. The 6x16 (WB616) is the big brother of the 6x8 (WB68) and needs an external power supply that the (WB68) does not. You need a seperate run for every tuner channel using this classic technology. They will not work feeding a Genie as there is only 1 input on the back of a Genie.

Does the SWM16 have a in port for a TV antenna?

No, only the SWM 8 and SWM32 have an antenna port built in to the unit.

And why do you say you would need your IRD's networked? Is that just to let the IRDs share the MRV?

The MRV to share programming does not work if you have an off air antenna in the system as it uses the same bandspace.

In my setup, I'd be hooking up Genies exclusively.

You are aware at this point in time, even though multiple Genies will work on the same system, DirecTV is not authorizing more than 1 per system?

Now that I think about it, the SWM16 has two SWM8 ports on it, correct? I'm fairly certain they share MRV (as mentioned elsewhere). There is 16 tuners, so in theory you could hook up three Genies

No, you can only have 8 tuners per cloud, and as thus you could only connect up 1 Genie per cloud (taking up 5 channels) and either (3) H2x Non-DVRs or (1)HR2x DVR and (1) H2x Non-DVR per cloud. That means 2 Genies at most on a SWM16.

Then how do you use the remaining 3 tuners on each port for a third Genie? Or is that not possible?

As stated above, not possible.

 

[ZandarKoad]

I like your post, but hate your answers. That does make sense though. I wish there was some better way to hook up Genies in an MDU setting. I guess four Genies per dish isn't that bad...

The Genies would be on separate accounts, by the way. I'm just thinking in terms of landlords who don't like seeing dishes. I'd have to custom build a blind to hide each dish.

 

[raoul5788]

I like your post, but hate your answers. That does make sense though. I wish there was some better way to hook up Genies in an MDU setting. I guess four Genies per dish isn't that bad...

The Genies would be on separate accounts, by the way. I'm just thinking in terms of landlords who don't like seeing dishes. I'd have to custom build a blind to hide each dish.

The landlord may not like the dish, but if it conforms to OTARD, they can't make you hide it.

 

[SomeRandomIdiot]

I like your post, but hate your answers. That does make sense though. I wish there was some better way to hook up Genies in an MDU setting. I guess four Genies per dish isn't that bad...

The Genies would be on separate accounts, by the way. I'm just thinking in terms of landlords who don't like seeing dishes. I'd have to custom build a blind to hide each dish.

With four different account, you would not need to worry about the networking. The 4 clouds (and thus 4 Genies) on seperate accounts could not play each other's programming if they could see each other. Each Genie and the additional units (whether C31 or some combination of H/R2x devices) would be able to see each other on the same cloud.