Help in Getting OTA in Centreville, VA

[twitherspoon]

Hi everyone,
I need help in getting full signal of OTA digital signal in Centreville, VA 20121. I've tried a lot of things, but either I'm missing something or it just isn't possible in my area.

Here's what I have tried with 5 different antennas:
1.) DB4 Antenna I've had this antenna for years when I first tried to go OTA a few years back. I first tried it in the attic. My goal in all of this is to get the main 4 networks (NBC, Fox, ABC, and CBS). In the attic I was able to get ABC and CBS, but no NBC or Fox. I mounted it outside on the roof and was able to get NBC and Fox, but not ABC or CBS. The run from the attic begins with a 20 feet RG59 run and then probably 50 feet of RG6 into the house and then another 20 feet to the TV. The run from the roof begins with 50 feet of RG6 and then 20 feet of RG59 to the TV.

2.) Mohu Leaf Antenna I tried both Mohu Leaf antennas amplified and not amplified. Both antennas only received NBC and Fox and NOT ABC and CBS. These I tried indoors so I didn't need a cable run and plugged them directly to the TV on my second floor

3.) AntennaCraft HBU33 I figured since I wasn't getting all of the signals maybe I needed a bigger antenna. So I picked this one from Radio Shack. It states the range is 70 miles and I'm only 20 something miles from the tower, so this should be overkill right. I didn't want to get on the roof again, so I tested this one first indoors pointing it through my second floor window. I figured it should do at least better than the Leaf and DB4 antenna, but no luck it still only picked up NBC and Fox and not the other two stations. I checked signal strength on my TiVo box and it ABC still never got over 33 and on average stayed in the 20s. I forgot to mention I tried this amp (Motorola Signal Booster 484095-001-00 Bi-Directional RF Amplifier) with the HBU33 and was able to pick up CBS, but no ABC. Oh one more thing cable run from the second floor window is 50 feet RG6 and 20 feet of RG59 to the TV

4.) AntennaCraft HBU55 I decided to go even bigger and got the HBU55 with a range of 100 miles. Still no dice. Same two channels NBC and Fox and the signal strength either remained the same or weaker. When I tried the Motorola amp with the bigger HBU55, I did get CBS again, but the signal was weaker and the picture kept going in and out. Again this is 50 feet of RG6 and 20 feet to the TV.

I'm not really sure what to make of all this. Any suggestions or ideas I can try. I'm willing to move the Antennas to the roof and try my tests again. It's just a lot of work to get those big antennas up there and I want to make sure I have a reasonable chance of success.

Other ideas I had was to get a real antenna amplifier like this an AntennaCraft DG201 pre-amplifier.

I also thought maybe my signal is too strong and perhaps a variable attenuator would help

Lastly here's my information when I ran my address on AntennaWeb.org and as you can see I'm less than 25 miles from the antenna.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

Stations Antenna
WNVT-DT 30.6 IND
RF Channel: 30
13 miles at 176°Yellow
WFDC-DT 14.1 UNI
RF Channel: 15
22 miles at 67° Blue
WJLA-DT 7.1 ABC
RF Channel: 7
22 miles at 66° Blue
WNVC-DT 30.1 IND
RF Channel: 24
13 miles at 73° Blue
WUSA-DT 9.1 CBS
RF Channel: 9
22 miles at 66° Blue
WDCA-DT 20.1 MNT
RF Channel: 35
22 miles at 65° Violet
WRC-DT 4.1 NBC
RF Channel: 48
22 miles at 67° Violet
WTTG-DT 5.1 FOX
RF Channel: 36
22 miles at 65° Violet

 

[emtpud]

Welcome! Any obstructions that would block reception? ie: trees, hills, buildings etc... I would install a rotor so you could watch any channel. It also looks like most of the channels are around the same degrees so maybe a little higher might help. Paul

 

[twitherspoon]

I am in a neighborhood in the suburbs of DC, so I'm not completely clear. I have houses around me as well as trees. How much interference is there from trees when I'm 22 miles from the tower and using a 100 mile antenna?

Also just an FYI I ran a TV fool report: here's the ID Number since I can't post URLs. Itemid=29&q=id%3d2df9e3f28c112e

You mentioned obstructions should I get mast extender to make sure that's not the issue?

 

[boba]

CBS & ABC are VHF channels so the DB4 can be eliminated The HBU33 should work from outside on or above the roof. The other question is the 20' of RG-59 have you tried bypassing it? It sounds like it was original wiring in the house and there is the chance overtime it has been damaged. Using www.tvfool.com you are 22 miles and about 66 degrees from the broadcast towers

Hi everyone,
I need help in getting full signal of OTA digital signal in Centreville, VA 20121. I've tried a lot of things, but either I'm missing something or it just isn't possible in my area.

Here's what I have tried with 5 different antennas:
1.) DB4 Antenna I've had this antenna for years when I first tried to go OTA a few years back. I first tried it in the attic. My goal in all of this is to get the main 4 networks (NBC, Fox, ABC, and CBS). In the attic I was able to get ABC and CBS, but no NBC or Fox. I mounted it outside on the roof and was able to get NBC and Fox, but not ABC or CBS. The run from the attic begins with a 20 feet RG59 run and then probably 50 feet of RG6 into the house and then another 20 feet to the TV. The run from the roof begins with 50 feet of RG6 and then 20 feet of RG59 to the TV.

2.) Mohu Leaf Antenna I tried both Mohu Leaf antennas amplified and not amplified. Both antennas only received NBC and Fox and NOT ABC and CBS. These I tried indoors so I didn't need a cable run and plugged them directly to the TV on my second floor

3.) AntennaCraft HBU33 I figured since I wasn't getting all of the signals maybe I needed a bigger antenna. So I picked this one from Radio Shack. It states the range is 70 miles and I'm only 20 something miles from the tower, so this should be overkill right. I didn't want to get on the roof again, so I tested this one first indoors pointing it through my second floor window. I figured it should do at least better than the Leaf and DB4 antenna, but no luck it still only picked up NBC and Fox and not the other two stations. I checked signal strength on my TiVo box and it ABC still never got over 33 and on average stayed in the 20s. I forgot to mention I tried this amp (Motorola Signal Booster 484095-001-00 Bi-Directional RF Amplifier) with the HBU33 and was able to pick up CBS, but no ABC. Oh one more thing cable run from the second floor window is 50 feet RG6 and 20 feet of RG59 to the TV

4.) AntennaCraft HBU55 I decided to go even bigger and got the HBU55 with a range of 100 miles. Still no dice. Same two channels NBC and Fox and the signal strength either remained the same or weaker. When I tried the Motorola amp with the bigger HBU55, I did get CBS again, but the signal was weaker and the picture kept going in and out. Again this is 50 feet of RG6 and 20 feet to the TV.

I'm not really sure what to make of all this. Any suggestions or ideas I can try. I'm willing to move the Antennas to the roof and try my tests again. It's just a lot of work to get those big antennas up there and I want to make sure I have a reasonable chance of success.

Other ideas I had was to get a real antenna amplifier like this an AntennaCraft DG201 pre-amplifier.

I also thought maybe my signal is too strong and perhaps a variable attenuator would help

Lastly here's my information when I ran my address on AntennaWeb.org and as you can see I'm less than 25 miles from the antenna.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

Stations Antenna
WNVT-DT 30.6 IND
RF Channel: 30
13 miles at 176°Yellow
WFDC-DT 14.1 UNI
RF Channel: 15
22 miles at 67° Blue
WJLA-DT 7.1 ABC
RF Channel: 7
22 miles at 66° Blue
WNVC-DT 30.1 IND
RF Channel: 24
13 miles at 73° Blue
WUSA-DT 9.1 CBS
RF Channel: 9
22 miles at 66° Blue
WDCA-DT 20.1 MNT
RF Channel: 35
22 miles at 65° Violet
WRC-DT 4.1 NBC
RF Channel: 48
22 miles at 67° Violet
WTTG-DT 5.1 FOX
RF Channel: 36
22 miles at 65° Violet

 

[TheKrell]

Channels 7 and 9 are high-VHF, so you need an antenna that can receive them efficiently. Your antennas 1 and 2 are pretty much UHF-only. So I'm surprised moving #1 up on the roof received VHF all of a sudden, and stopped picking up the UHF channels. That makes no sense!

General rule of thumb: the higher the better. I'd put either antenna #3 or #4 on the roof, and leave off any amplification. You shouldn't need any amplification with #3, and certainly not with #4 going to a single TV. Amplification is only confusing the issue possibly by overloading the amp. If you still can't get 7 and 9, there must be some source of interference, such as Dulles or a nearby FM radio broadcast. Cheap FM traps exist; I'd put one of those in for sure. Also #3 and #4 are directional. Make sure you're pointing at the stations!

 

[twitherspoon]

I know I only got 7 & 9 when I directly plugged the DB4 to the tv and I was in the attic with no amplification. I will try your suggestions. Question though I have some power lines near my house and some big power towers 1/2 mile down the road. Could that be a source of my problem and what do I do to solve that issue? Will the FM trap help me with that?

 

[TheKrell]

Power lines should not block the TV signal, which is at a much higher frequency. Are these power lines or power tower in your LOS to the stations?

An FM trap won't help with power lines, but it should help eliminate interference from nearby FM stations.

 

[jgantert]

Your TVFool report looks like mine, tons of 2Edge, and I'm about the same distance (25 miles out). You need a proper pre-amp, not a distribution amp. Consider the ChannelMaster 7777 or 7778. The 7778 should be enough gain since you are close.

If you want to keep with your current amp, make sure to place it as CLOSE to the antenna as possible to reduce the amount of noise it amplifies.

 

[TheKrell]

Your TVFool report looks like mine, tons of 2Edge, and I'm about the same distance (25 miles out).

I'm about 10 miles out, and I have to go down to Baltimore stations to find any 2edge! I enjoy LOS on everything closer with a feeble antenna on the roof. Did you all enter your antenna elevation? I entered 20'.

 

[twitherspoon]

Weirdest thing. I just put that monster antenna in the attic and it gets ABC and CBS, but now no FOX or CBS. I just don't get it. I'll try it on the roof tomorrow, but I wonder if I need to combine two antenna signals now.

 

[TheKrell]

Bizarre. Here's my wag. Your roof material attenuates UHF.

 

[twitherspoon]

Is there any issue with me using two antennas and a combiner? I'll leave one on the roof and one in the attic.

 

[No Static At All]

No need to combine the antennas, the HBU-33 should do the trick on the roof. How is the antenna mounted on the roof?

 

[TheKrell]

Is there any issue with me using two antennas and a combiner? I'll leave one on the roof and one in the attic.

In general that's not a good idea, because the two antennas can destructively interfere with each other. Antenna arrays can be designed, but the spacing has to be exact or the combination is worse than just one.

 

[SatelliteAV]

As you are finding out, higher is not always better. In my case all channels cannot be received with the antennas set at a single height. Most channels are only received when the antennas are at between 12 to 18 feet above the ground and different channels are received at different heights..

Placing the antennas higher than that or in other locations within 50 foot radius, very few stations are marginally received. Had purchased 60 feet of Rohn 25g tower, but ended up using only a single section ground mounted.

Now working on a motorized system to raise and lower the antennas elevation within this 6 foot window using a remote motor instead of a rotor for unneeded azimuth rotation.

Btw, using a 91xg for UHF, Winegard YA-1713 for VHF high, UHF/VHF combiner, Channel Master CM-7777 Titan2 amp and 40 feet of quad shield RG-6.

Replace the coax and get rid of the RG-59. No harm in combining the antennas if you use a proper combiner with separated UHF/VHF inputs. Phasing will not be an issue if one antenna is dedicated to UHF and the other for VHF. An inline amp may not be needed.

 

[No Static At All]

The OP is using a J-mount on the roof which is too close to the roof with such weak signals. If the antenna is mounted just 5-10 feet above the roofline, reception should improve dramatically; especially VHF. He's got the right equipment, it just needs some breathing room to catch the signals.

 

[johann12]

Putting an antenna in the attic is a bad idea, since the roof will/could reduce the signal strength. Any object that is closer then about 4- 5 feet to the antenna actually become part of the antenna and since those objects are not tuned can eliminate some if not all signals. A shingle roof for example can hold a lot of moister for weeks between the layers and could act like a sheet-metal roof.

Trees will not give you a direct line of sight, the trees will block the signal as well as a building. When the leaves are gone in the winter season than the signal increases.

Most folks put there amplifiers right there where the TV set is and that will not do any good.
For amplifiers to work properly they should be as close as possible to the antenna. A amplifier can only amplify a signal that is there, it can not amplify a signal that is to weak or a signal that is not there anymore because of losses in the cable run etc. etc. . In case of weak signal or signal loss the amplifier will only amplify noise and that is bad.

UHF antennas have to be at a minimum of about 3 feet away from any object like roof etc.. and UHF antenna about 5 feet or the object will become part of the antenna which most objects are not tuned.
A second antenna that is mounted to close to the first antenna will become part of the 1st antenna and in most cases all antennas that are mounted to close will loose a lot of signal.

I live middle in the city, but I have 100 foot trees around me and it looks like I am in the middle of the forest. Also my house is in a hole and I ended up putting a 20 foot antenna pole on top of my house which gives me a height of 35 feet, but compare to the city streets my antenna is about ground level.
I use a rotor to move my antenna to the direction I need.

I have 2 yagi antennas pointed at the same direction. They are 4 1/2 feet apart since I only use UHF. I combined the 2 yagi antennas with an 300 ohm down-lead antenna wire, but I paid attention to polarity so they are the same. I connected 1 balun to one of the yagi antennas and then I used a RG 6 quad shield coax which is used throughout the house.
15 feet after the antenna I have my amplifier mounted. The amplifier has a gain adjustment and a switch for an FM trap, $20 with free shipment at ebay.
After the amplifier it is distributed throughout the house.

If you get a splitter, get a splitter for the exact number of ports that you need, since a splitter will also split the power according to the ports you have.

I am receiving 24 channels out of 26 channels, that are about 60 miles away.

I also noticed that I am missing some channels on my older TV's, while my new 36'' flat-screen will get more channels than my older my older TV's. I thought that I had problems with my cable run, so I swapped TV's and I found out that it was the kind of a TV that was used. Apparently newer TV's are more sensitive and can pick up signals better and will give you more channels.

 

[Bob2011]

Depending on where you live in Centreville the strongest LOS(line-of-site) signals are about 150 feet above the ground. That means the signal has to diffract or bend over objects between you and the transmitters to get to your antenna on the roof. As SatelliteAV said above, in this situation you will need to test different locations on your roof or even lower for optimal signal strength. With the HBU-33 or HBU-55 the VHF stations should be very easy. The UHF will be harder especially if your antenna points at trees or a building. Some people have luck with tilting the antenna upward a few degrees in 2edge diffraction areas. RG6 cable is cheap so I would replace everything with one cable to rule out any issues with the old cable.

 

[twitherspoon]

Thanks everyone. It's been pretty rainy the last several days and I haven't had a chance to do some more testing. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[dishcomm]

I am in a neighborhood in the suburbs of DC, so I'm not completely clear. I have houses around me as well as trees. How much interference is there from trees when I'm 22 miles from the tower and using a 100 mile antenna?

Also just an FYI I ran a TV fool report: here's the ID Number since I can't post URLs. Itemid=29&q=id%3d2df9e3f28c112e

You mentioned obstructions should I get mast extender to make sure that's not the issue?

I looked the signal profiles for the 4 major nets. You are no more than 21 miles from the most distant TX...They are all in the same direction. If you look closely at the profile, you'll notice "green" color near the surface.
I believe you may have terrain issues.
Look, if there's one thing in many years of installing OTA antennas, it's an inexact science for sure.
You may think this is nuts..From the town center of Centreville, you are about 5 to 6 miles from the TDWR for Dulles airport. The radar is located just off RTE 267 in sterling, just off the airport property.
Weather radars can cause all kinds of havoc with TV reception.
Just a theory. I think you may have terrain issues as well. And some terrestrial interference.