HDTV question

[andyg]

Guys,

Have the following question. If watching HDTV (HD programming) from a very close distance (especially when looking at tv screen from above or from a very close angle) are you supposed to notice some tiny pixels or not? Am I experiencing pixelation and my signal from dish is bad, or is it normal to see such thigs at very close distances even when watching HD programming (and I mean any HD programming, not only sports or other fast movement things, for example I notice these tiny pixels at very close range especially on black colors).
let me know what you think.

thanks

 

[SlyFerret]

What you're seeing is probably two things:

1) Macro blocking, a side effect of video compression.

2) You may have the sharpness turned up too high. Over sharpening will cause goofy outlines and other artifacts in the picture.

I've never seen an HDTV that doesn't have some of this when looking at it up close.

-SF

 

[KAB]

Back up!

 

[CowboyDren]

I guess it comes down to what you're calling "close." Any TV will show pixels at some size:distance ratio, and if you're looking at a 50" screen from 50" away, yes, you'll see more.

Do turn your sharpness control on the TV off; it mostly just makes artifacts on a digital source. If that doesn't get rid of it, you're SOL.

Any HD signal that's of lower quality than what's coming off of the local affiliate broadcast tower (read: almost all pay TV sources) will look worse than what you get with an antenna, which is why I set my favorite prime time TV shows to favor the antenna over the dish. Some times of day, some channels (especially Spike, USA and SyFy in the middle of the day) look worse than others because the programmers put less of a priority on optimizing the picture. You may be picking up on that, too.

 

[aquaman67]

2) You may have the sharpness turned up too high. Over sharpening will cause goofy outlines and other artifacts in the picture.

Thanks for the sharpness tip. I had mine up too high and noticed some "goofy outlines".

 

[bookworm370]

Yup, with newer TV's and direct digital feeds you really don't need sharpness. Most calibrators will tell you to turn it to 0 or very low.

Also, yes, pixels are pixels. You get too close and you will see them. Try looking at a magazine using a magnifying glass. At todays large screen TV's they are not meant to be viewed from 2 feet away like we used to on normal florescent coated electron beam TV's on the floor while we were kids. Or at last when I was back in the middle ages!

 

[mike123abc]

TVs are usually adjusted to scream at you from the store shelf under bad lighting. They tend to have sharpness turned way up to give a look of "detail" and brightness up way high to overcome the bad lighting.

Sharpness on HDTV really should be off. There is no need to sharpen an HD picture by doing artificial edge detection. You no longer should be trying to overcome ghosting and static on OTA analog stations.

Brightness and contrast should be adjusted so a bright scene is watchable and not hurting your eyes and the darks are still dark and not bright grey.

 

[kovach]

Yes, everything I've ever read about Sharpness is, it actually adds things to the picture that aren't actually there, rather than sort of a focus to make it sharper, which did help many years ago with the quality of electronics and the signals provided, but is completely unnecessary today.

Turn it off. May look 'less sharp' initially, but after a day or two you won't think anything about it...except maybe your picture now looks better!

 

[andyg]

thanks guy...all your comments were really helpful

 

[Rlanham]

Rent a calibration DVD like "Avia" from the rental store and do an easy calibration on your TV..

 

[DishSubLA]

It is the nature of the best: MPEG. That's how it builds the picture: course quantization. This is most noticeable in the background of a picture and the less movement and detail or more plain the background, such as a solid colored wall that doesn't move, you will see some horrid macro-blocking, if you allow yourself to focus on that. It is lossy compression.

What MPEG wants you to do is focus on the foreground of moving actors with facial detail and try not to look at the horrid background too much as this will disappoint you. It is a compromise but it is among the best ways to take a boatload of data and compress it so that it can be efficiently stored, or in this case, transmitted either OTA (MPEG2) or via satellite (SD=MPEG2; HD=MPEG4). Now there is a way to fix this: use less compression, but that would mean fewer HD channels at Dish or Direc. MPEG is really a good compression method. It's just that there will always be comprises to anything.

 

[SlyFerret]

Well said. I was too lazy to write all that out earlier...

-SF

 

[FitzAusTex]

I understand that we should really have Sharpness turned off on our HDTV sets, yet I wonder if it bothers any of you that the E* EPG, and other menus are pretty blurry with sharpness off. Do you all just accept/deal with the blurriness of the menus/guides?

 

[CowboyDren]

I understand that we should really have Sharpness turned off on our HDTV sets, yet I wonder if it bothers any of you that the E* EPG, and other menus are pretty blurry with sharpness off. Do you all just accept/deal with the blurriness of the menus/guides?

That's a manifestation of the fact that the EPG was designed for a CRT TV set and a 480i signal carrier. The 922 will be the first receiver that has an actual HDTV interface.

 

[FitzAusTex]

That's a manifestation of the fact that the EPG was designed for a CRT TV set and a 480i signal carrier. The 922 will be the first receiver that has an actual HDTV interface.

Thanks much for the info. Does anyone know if there is something preventing E* from enhancing the menus/guides to account for this for the current VIP receivers? i.e. give us an option to set resolution for menus/guides?

 

[CowboyDren]

Nah. There's a TON of software and firmware that'd have to be rewritten for this to work. Those of us complaining about it aren't enough for Dish to invest in. If it makes you feel any better, none of the other big players (TiVo, Motorola, DirecTV) are concerned with a real 720/1080 interface, either.