HDMI - is there a problem?

[JoeSp]

The current post in here about the possiblity of the PS3 having audio problems has prompted me to post this here. This is an excellent article about HDMI and the newest version 1.3:

http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp

Another good article on 1.3:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/1984/hdmi-13-the-missing-link.html

Specifically 1.3 talk:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/audioholics-hdmi-1-3-q-a

 

[teachsac]

Oh what a mess HDMI has thrown the CE industry. In theory it looks great. In practice, it has been riddled with problems. One of the biggest issues is that manufacturers can implement only those features they choose. Many write their own code (E*, D*, C*). That is why there has been so many lipsync issues. So much for the standard.

There are some very nice features with 1.3, though. With the higher bandwidth it can pass HD audio (provided the player and disc allow it). HD-DVD already uses advanced authoring and BD is supposed to implement it as the standard in October. With 10, 12, and 16 bit color depths, the user should see better color and depth. However, to get the full color space both the source material and monitor must meet the 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard, otherwise known as x.v.Color. Mitsubishi has already started shipping their new line with this feature (msrp 2999-3399).

My question is, "Do HD-DVD and BD support this?"

S~

 

[JoeSp]

Supposedly the new Sony BDP300 supports this:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/27/sony-officially-announces-600-bdp-s300-blu-ray-player/

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9691343-1.html

This is the second product to support x.v. color. The PS3 is supposed to but as there are no software products (either games nor BD movies) that currently support this new color standard we will probably not know for awhile. Aside from this to find out that the new BD player does not decode either TrueDolbyHD nor DTS-HD MA but adds DolbyDigitalPlus (a format not currently used on any BD dics) puts a dent in what was a good announcement for the BD camp. Only hope for this player is that it passed the compressed HD signals to an avr that can decode these new codecs.

I tried to find anything concerning HD-DVD and the new color standard and there was none to be found. However, this is not bad news as neither BD nor HD-DVD have this as a requirement nor standard for their respective formats.

 

[teachsac]

Yeah, I didn't think any source material supported it. Still no mention of DTS-Master Audio support in any form for the Sony model only DD+.

S~

 

[diogen]

To summarise, HDMI 1.3 is not much more at this time than a marketing gimmick. Even more so the 1.3a implementation of PS3.
The only reasonable feature - digital transfer of the lossless audio over HDMI - is of questionable importance since you will lose any other sound but the movie soundtrack.

Diogen.

 

[JoeSp]

Diogen, can you post where it has been said that you lose sounds other then the movie soundtrack with 1.3a? I think you are confusing 1.3a HDMI with the BD-Java 2.0 implementation that is going to happen this October.

 

[CochiseGuy]

Diogen, can you post where it has been said that you lose sounds other then the movie soundtrack with 1.3a? I think you are confusing 1.3a HDMI with the BD-Java 2.0 implementation that is going to happen this October.

I think what he's talking about in "lose sounds" is that IF players can just read the TrueHD / DTS HD-MA audio track and pass it on to a receiving for decoding, it can be only one audio track. Meaning in HD DVD / BD discs authored with "advanced content", only the movie soundtrack would be passed out - no secondary audio tracks, like the Director's commentary, disc menu sounds, etc. I believe I could live with that sacrifice.

 

[diogen]

Have a look at this post (pictures taken from the DTS site).

HDMI 1.3 will take the lossless movie soundtrack and transfer as bitstream for decoding to the receiver.
No additional tracks (commentary, UI sounds, etc.) will be transfered since no mixing is done in the player.

HDMI 1.3a, implemented in PS3 and few receivers, is a subset (not extension) of HDMI 1.3 and therefore can't do any better.

I don't see this as too big of a sin: next generation hidef DVDs want you to drop your receiver and use power amps instead, leaving the decoding/mixing job to the player (being it standalone or PC). And this can already be done with analog - this is why I called HDMI 1.3 a marketing gimmick.

Diogen.

 

[CochiseGuy]

HDMI 1.3 will take the lossless movie soundtrack and transfer as bitstream for decoding to the receiver.
No additional tracks (commentary, UI sounds, etc.) will be transfered since no mixing is done in the player.

HDMI 1.3a, implemented in PS3 and few receivers, is a subset (not extension) of HDMI 1.3 and therefore can't do any better.

I don't see this as too big of a sin: next generation hidef DVDs want you to drop your receiver and use power amps instead, leaving the decoding/mixing job to the player (being it standalone or PC). And this can already be done with analog - this is why I called HDMI 1.3 a marketing gimmick.

Diogen.

I tend to agree with the "marketing gimmick" - HDMI 1.3 and DTS HD-MA seem to me a bone they through to the CE companies making receivers. My 6 yr. old receiver had all the bells & whistles available then. These days with high def players and my Dish 211 receiver doing all the decoding, it's a glorified amplifier. Who needs an expensive receiver doing decoding when the player can do it - except for the elusive HD-MA.

And there's another problem with HDMI receivers - you seem to need an HDTV with HDMI for them to work. I'm very happy with my 3 yr. old Sony 57" HDTV, but it only has DVI digital input. It's fully HDCP compliant, and has worked fine with my XA1 HD DVD player. It also has two component inputs, but I prefer the sharper image on DVI. With the PS3 I bought on eBay on it's way, I started looking for HDMI receivers to upgrade. I picked up a Sony STR-DG710 last weekend on sale @ $255 from Best Buy. I spent almost 3 hours fiddling with it and couldn't get a peep form the HDMI inputs from my HD DVD player and Dish 211 receiver. And then I found the problem by accident - I turned off the TV while playing an HD DVD and suddenly I had audio! And then I found a note in the manual: "We do not recommend using a HDMI to DVI conversion cable. This may result in the video and /or audio not playing correctly".

The video output works fine, and I even dug through the receiver's menus and found an option to turn off sending HDMI audio to the TV and only output it though the speakers. Nope, the receiver doesn't recognize my TV as HDMI / HDCP compliant and will only play audio when the TV is turned off. I suppose I could output the video directly to the TV via component, but that pretty much defeats the purpose.

I'm taking the receiver back to BB today and sticking with the good old fashioned analog inputs on my old but just fine receiver for now.