HD service incompatible with SD receivers?

[randalstroup]

Hi guys/gals, does anyone know if what I am being told is true? I just had DN service installed a couple weeks ago with only one "free" leased HD receiver (722) as part of the service, thinking I could add extra, cheaper SD receivers later on for my other TVs. I was just about to pull the trigger on some good eBay deals for 301s or 311s, and as I was checking on the CAID #s, I was told (via phone) that I would need to either have an additional "non-MPG4" dish installed or pay for the more expensive ViP HD receivers. I was in disbelief so I also verified this via online chat, and although the story sounded a bit different, its essence matched what I was told over the phone.

If this is true, what in your opinion is my best option moving forward. I am really attracted to the pricing on the bare-bones receivers out there, but I'm not sure a 2nd dish is the way to go. If I did decide to pursue the extra dish, how would DN handle that?

Thanks in advance for any help,
R.

 

[csschrot]

Well I believe since you are on the East Coast that you have a Eastern Arc dish that looks at 61.5, 72 and 77. If that is the case then yes you do need HD receivers since they are MPEG-4 receivers. The Eastern Arc system only supports MPEG-4 and not MPEG-2 (or SD) receivers.

If you are not sure what arc you are looking at you can look very easily. Press Menu - 6 (system setup) - 1 (installation) - 1 (point dish) then highlight check switch and see what satellites are listed.

Hope this helps.

 

[TheKrell]

Looks to me like Williamsport is in the Wilkes-Barre DMA, which is Eastern Arc.

 

[navychop]

The 301 and other non-8PSK receivers are being phased out and I don't think they will activate them anywhere anymore. Also, non-MPEG4 receivers, as noted above, will not work with EA. You can, however, get an HD receiver such as the ViP211 for around a hundred bucks new and drive either an SD or an HD TV.

It's not that HD service is incompatible with SD receivers. And no dish is specific to MPEG4 or HD or SD. You probably have a 1000.4 dish, and could feed any type TV, assuming MPEG4 receivers.

And to our community.

 

[randalstroup]

Thanks for the "welcome"! And yes, 61.5, 72 and 77 are the numbers I have listed under "satellite input" (1 and 2). I know the dish has 3 LNBs on it if that helps. Also, my best signal (59) comes from "Echostar 72.7 West", does that make sense? What would DN say if I told them I wanted a 2nd dish installed? Or would I be better off buying my own and doing a DIY install? Buying a couple $100 222s seems a bit frivolous when I could get a couple 322s for $50 total when that's all I need, right?

 

[CK SatGuy]

The 322s will not work with your setup. All setups that use 61.5, 72.7 and 77 require the VIP (HD) receivers on all TVs regardless if the TV is HD or SD.

 

[randalstroup]

Okay, I understand my hopes that I could simply buy a cheap SD receiver to use with my dish are up in smoke...so does anyone have any thoughts on installing a second dish? Would that fly with DN? Answers to some of my other, previous questions would be great too.

 

[whatchel1]

Okay, I understand my hopes that I could simply buy a cheap SD receiver to use with my dish are up in smoke...so does anyone have any thoughts on installing a second dish? Would that fly with DN? Answers to some of my other, previous questions would be great too.

You need a 211 or 222. I would suggest the 211 as it can have an HDD add to make it a DVR for a 1 time fee. A 211 isn't gonna be that much more than a WA rec.

 

[Mr Tony]

Okay, I understand my hopes that I could simply buy a cheap SD receiver to use with my dish are up in smoke...so does anyone have any thoughts on installing a second dish? Would that fly with DN? Answers to some of my other, previous questions would be great too.

I think the issue is because your account is marked as "Eastern Arc" Dish may not allow you to add any non VIP receiver to the account even if you slap up a Dish 500 for 110/119

 

[TheKrell]

If I were you, I wouldn't waste money on a 301/311 and a D500 for WA. I'd try for a cheap used 411/211/211k instead.

 

[boba]

Okay, I understand my hopes that I could simply buy a cheap SD receiver to use with my dish are up in smoke...so does anyone have any thoughts on installing a second dish? Would that fly with DN? Answers to some of my other, previous questions would be great too.

Technically you could install a dish 500 for 110/119 and connect a 311/322 receiver to it but how long will it work. DISH is going to eventually eliminate all MPEG2 broadcasts and switch to MPEG4 because it makes better use of available bandwidth. First step has alreagy been taken by discontinuing older receivers such as the 301 or 501/508/510 DVRs. How long before the 311/522/625 etc receivers are upgraded to VIP receivers 1 year or less?

The smart thing and longterm idea is buy VIP receivers that are compatible with Eastern Arc.

 

[Mr Tony]

Technically you could install a dish 500 for 110/119 and connect a 311/322 receiver to it but how long will it work.

that wont work. I already posted the reason why

I think the issue is because your account is marked as "Eastern Arc" Dish may not allow you to add any non VIP receiver to the account even if you slap up a Dish 500 for 110/119

 

[randalstroup]

Alrighty then, unfortunately, this leaves a somewhat sour taste in my mouth as a new customer...I feel as if they are purposefully restricting our options for affordable receivers (earlier models, non-HD, and otherwise used) by pigeon-holing technologies...just because I have an HDTV in one room doesn't mean I have them in all my rooms necessitating HD receivers.

Thanks for the help all!

 

[garys]

You should note that sd tv's are being phased out as well, and the mpeg4 receivers do work with sd tv's making it possible to view HD channels on them. Something the sd receivers cannot do.

 

[dwarren2]

The 211k would require the ota module for local reception. There would be a solo receiver fee for a 211.

In other threads, people with 301's are reporting that they are getting letters from DN that the 301's are being phased out over the next 2 years. Getting anything other than a VIP receiver is a waste of money.

 

[TheKrell]

No, the 211k does not take the MT2 module because it already has a single OTA tuner built in. You are probably thinking of the 222k.

 

[dwarren2]

No, I was thinking the diff between the 722 and 722k was the ota module and I thought it was the same with the 211. My mistake.

 

[TheKrell]

It is entertaining to contemplate what the "k" means. Is it "black" as it is with many manufacturers? No, since the 922 is black. Is it "takes the MT2"? No, because the 211k does not, while the 922 does.

 

[navychop]

What Iceberg said. But you might be able to sidestep this with help from a DIRT member. But I highly advise against it. You'll just be spending more money soon.

Alrighty then, unfortunately, this leaves a somewhat sour taste in my mouth as a new customer...I feel as if they are purposefully restricting our options for affordable receivers (earlier models, non-HD, and otherwise used) by pigeon-holing technologies...just because I have an HDTV in one room doesn't mean I have them in all my rooms necessitating HD receivers.

Thanks for the help all!

Those receivers are dirt cheap because that's about what they're worth- dirt. The phase out is happening because technology has improved and they can cram more channels, both SD and HD, in the same bandwidth space. But older receivers can't deal with the newer signals. And bandwidth is limited. They can't just slap up another satellite.

 

[DishSubLA]

The lower priced options are available as mentioned the single tuner ViP boxes. All the MVPD's (Cable, sat,) are upgrading their systems to accommodate more channels that people are demanding, and more in HD, to fit on their limited bandwidth, so for the past few years, even cable subs have LOST their analog options, and TV's or other equipment that used to be able to tune to analog CATV for recording can no longer do so as some cable systems have switched to all digital, and MORE to come.

It is not the case of the MVPD's trying to increase the cost to subscribers (they try like heck to get the programming costs down, but just can't do it in most cases and they are very sensitive to what consumers sticker shock, but they either spend the money and expand and upgrade the technology or their subs go to the competition who already have upgraded their infrastructure with all the channels they want in HD and 3D or whatever).

Believe me, Dish would rather NOT have to move to all 8PSK or all MPEG4 as it COSTS DISH MONEY that would rather NOT have to spend, but they just don't have the bandwidth right now (see complaints about Dish NOT having Regional Sports services in 24/7 HD) to accommodate all the channels subscribers DEMAND. So, Dish has to upgrade their infrastructure, as well, or LOSE subscribers. The is the challenge that all MPVD's face, and they would rather NOT have to make the change because it costs them money that they really don't get back until some time has passed.

I want to also echo that you will have problems (most likely they will NOT activate) trying to activate MPEG2 boxes on your current account since it is flagged as an Eastern Arc install. Just don't bother going down that road and wasting your money. Now, if an account is not flagged as Eastern Arc, or if you DYI your install as Western Arc and then activate everything on such a new account, then that may work, but it sounds like you are in a commitment. OK, just accept where you are, and get the best deal you can on single tuner ViP's. Good luck.

So, try to get the least expensive ViP's such as the 211/K and best of luck. Let us know what you end up with.