Giving up...For now

[Unckle_Fun_Knuckles]

Well guys,
anyone who has been keeping up with my struggle, here is the latest chapter.

I finally got A signal on AMC3 while getting G10 in. I could only get the INFO channel (you know...the dude in the turban over the TV listings). That Tp showed up at like 90% quality but couldn't get anything else.
I thought maybe my adjustments weren't sensetive enogh, so My dad nad I constructed a sweet mount with a threaded rod for adjusting (similar to the one I was asking about) and it was worse. I guess the holes weren't dead on staright, who knows.
Anyway I took it off, went back to the old mount and now I have all the birds I need, including G10, but 0 quality on AMC3. I guess on Saturday just before the britcoms I'll have to go out and adjust the motor so they come in.
I have logged aprox 40 hours in front of that dish since I got it (no lie around 3-4 hours a night). I have officailly run out of patients.
I guess I'll let a few weeks pass and try some more. I still DON'T think it is that hard. I'm just missing something.
I set the motor at 36 (my Lat) point at AMC5(my south bird) adjust elevation till I can get a 90+ quality lock everything down, whell over to G10....nothing.
To get G10 I have to use the motor to angle the dish back.
I know with the motor and the dish combine there are 2 variables working with each other. I remember from algebra that a problem with 2 unknowns is unsolvable, but If I lock my motor at 36, then I have to adjust the elevation back and forth between AMC3 and G10.

Any advice is always appreciated. You have given me so much upto this point and I appreciate it all.

Guess it's time for some cold beer and a break.

 

[damaged]

I don't own any FTA equipment yet, but I was following your posts with interest, and was learning a bit to boot, btw I was rooting for ya..lol.

 

[jerryt]

You are so close.

If it was easly, then everyone would be doing it!!

Either A or B applies

A) The reason the elevation changes from most East and most West is that the dish is not centered. Since the dish tilts left and right when it goes from side to side the error shows up as an elevation error. I told you how my dish was off

Two things need to be centered 1) the lnb to the face of the dish and 2) the dish on the SG2100. If either is off then the elevation will change from most West and most East.

B) You set up the motor to true South and then tune your most south satellite. Don't make the mistake of tuning your most south satellite with the motor pointer on zero. Your most south satellite is not likely to be the true south. If this is the problem then just rotate the dish and motor as an assembly on the pole towards the side where the dish is to low. Remember after resetting the heading rotating on the pole you have to start over and set the most south satellite.

You can cheat on finding the correct; heading/True South/Center of the Arc. with out a compass or magnetic devation chart. Use the USAL function, enter in your coordinates, pick you most south satellite, either manually or with the reciever drive the motor to that satellite, verify that the pointer is where it should be, with the pointer on that degree mark, tune the elevation and azimuth to that satellite, verify it is the correct satellite. If everything is centered, and you used the correct coordinates, and the most south satellite verifies then the arc has to be correct.

Never adjust the motor elevation. that adjustment changes the height of the arc. and is only needed if you can't track the arc at all. like you can only get the center or the two end satellites.

If this is all too confusing then, post step by step what you are finding, and I can walk you through it. It should not take more than 1 hour to set up the motor. But of coarse like most everything in life that's after you know how.

Good Luck

 

[Tron]

When I first set up my SG-2100, I was WAY off on my true south... maybe as much as 5 degrees! But I didn't worry about it. After making sure my motor was at the '0' position, I used USALS to move the dish where it sat to 91w (my true south satellite). I had no quality. So I started SLOWLY panning the whole motor/dish assembly on the pole toward west. I started getting quality.... higher.... higher.... then it peaked. I locked the motor azimuth down.

During this operation, my motor was always permanently set at my latitude. I locked this down first, before anything else. Motor elevation should not be changed to peak the dish. I also set my dish at the correct elevation (30 minus my declination, which according to the chart, is about 5 degrees)... so my dish elevation was at 25 and my motor setting (according to the latitude side) was at 30, since New Orleans is at 30 degrees latitude.

If your receiver has USALS, you can quickly and rather accurately find your true south by motoring to your true south satellite and panning the assembly.

 

[TC_Lauderdale]

Tron, settle this for me please, as me and my co-worker are having the same difficulties as Knuckles...

I have a 30" dish on the same motor as you and my most south satellite is AMC5 79.0. I am at 26.1 latitude (Fort Lauderdale) and have set my motor at 26. My declination is supposedly 4.8, so my dish elevation/angle should be what?

I say 30 - 4.81 = 25+/- right?

 

[Wholeshoe]

Off the top of my head that sound about right,

 

[Tron]

That should be correct...

Remember to set the motor elevation using the 'latitude' side of the motor bracket scale (should be on the left looking from behind the motor)...

 

[Mr Tony]

somehting to remember

make sure the motor is at 0 BEFORE you start

I made the same mistake last night so my true south ans close (T6,T5,G3,G11) were all fine but farther I got away the worse it got

 

[Unckle_Fun_Knuckles]

Hey guys,
was just thumbing through my past post and came aross thisone. I think a lightbulb may have went off.
Ice told me make sure my motor is at 0 before I start...
When I set the motor up it was at zero but when I dialed in my souhtern bird it was like 4 degrees west or something, so the dish rotated to that spot, then I set my elevation to get it in.
Did I do this wrong? Am I supposed to find my southern bird with the motor STILL at 0??
Seems like if I did that everything would be 4 degrees off?


For anyone who was keeping up with my struggle...
the latest is..
Still not adjusted right but I'm in a position that I can get AMC3 (87W) and everything WEST of that but nothing EAST of it. Can't get AMC5 which would be my southern bird.
The only sats I really watch are G10, AMC3, T5 and AMC4. So I'm where I need to be...but STILL not 100% right.
Guess the bottom line is I don't have to tweak the dish on Saturday night to watch the Britcoms =) So I'm happy.

Someday after the trauma wears off I'll go mess with it some more.

Lesson for any newbie reading this is...stay patient and persist and eventually you'll get where you need to go.

 

[jh98]

Yes, it should be at zero or it won't track the arc quite right. I had a terrible time with this. When I first set up the motor, I really didn't know what I was doing, and I was able to get every satellite. But if I had things tweeked just right for some of the lower quality signals on G10 I couldn't get Montana PBS on AMC3. I don't know how many times I lugged the receiver and a little TV outside to do more tweeking.

Finally one night I read a post similiar to Iceberg's... and something clicked in my head... I couldn't wait until the next day to go back out and tweek again. But this time I put it on my southern sat (G-3C) before I went out... and it wasn't on zero, but a couple of degrees off. I put the motor on zero, loosened the bolts and adjusted the whole assembly so G-3C same in as well as I could get it, tightened the bolts... and that made all the difference. The signal quality improved considerably on the sats farther to the east and west.

If you can't get anything east of AMC3, is there a tree or something blocking the signal?

 

[truckracer]

Be sure

Be sure that your mounting pole is P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y Plumb. I can't stress that one enough. The pole has to be true or it will never track properly.
1. make sure motor is at "0" degrees center (if not connect it to the receiver
with a short piece of coax and go into the antenna setup menu and drive it
perfectly on "0".

2. set your declination adjustment according to your location. (set it and
forget it)

3. Mount motor on pole facing somewhat south.
4. Mount dish on motor.
5. set dish elevation by using instructions with the motor according to the
magnetic deviation of your location. Here in Charleston wv its 6.02 degr
-ees subtract that from 30 degrees and you get approx 24 degrees dish
elevation. (24 works great on mine).
Dish elevation is now set at 24 degrees on dish elevation marker.

6. connect and mount lnbf (run lnbf straight up without any skew).
7. with receiver connected to a small tv near the dish (if you don't have
a bird dog) tune receiver to a known good transponder on your true
south satellite.

8. Snug u-bolts to mounting pole so motor can be turned by hand with some
resistance. Turn motor/dish assembly slowly east/west until you get a
signal. If no signal check all your settings and try another transponder.

9. when you find a signal, peak it east/west, then ever so slightly peak the
dish elevation.(dish elevation should need little or no adjustment.

10. using the receiver, move the dish electrically to a far west sat and check
signal level. If moving the dish up or down increases the signal, your
motor is not true south. If pushing the dish down increases signal, motor
assembly is too far west. Slightly turn entire motor/dish assy counter
clockwise and check again. Go to a far east sat and do the above steps.
if raising the dish elevation increases signal, motor assy needs to slightly
turn west or clockwise. when you can no longer nudge the dish up or
down to increase signal you are done- carefully tighten everything down.

11. Peak your focal distance on the lnbf collar by gently sliding lnbf closer
and further from the focal point of the dish, watch signal level (quality
level) disregard "level" meter on most dvb receivers. Quality level or
"EB% meter" is what your after on digital.

12. Now your all done and surf away.

Hope this helps a little
Truckracer

 

[Tron]

Your motor should be at the '0' position BEFORE you motor it to your true south satellite using USALS. But it may not necessarily be at exactly '0' once it is on your true south satellite. For example, my true south satellite is at 91w, but my longitude is 90.1.

The important thing to remember is to set the motor at exactly '0' BEFORE moving your dish to your true south satellite and making adjustments. Therefore, you motor will be at '0' when it is facing true south (your true south satellite is probably not exactly at true south).

 

[truckracer]

does anyone ever have issues with the pansat 2500 getting out of sync with the sg-2100 motor after it is moved back and forth for approximately 3 months. I have to go to reference point "0" which is amc 9 here. I live at 83 degrees West. Manually move motor to 0 using the east/west button on the motor, reset it with a paperclip, then re-boot the receiver. It will be fine for about 3 months.

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

I hope no one here will think I am trying to be critical, but I would like to see a step by step checklist like Truckracers (sort of a idiot's guide) for newbies put in the faq. Speaking as one who will be facing the task soon, I think it could be very helpful and maybe reduce the number of repeat questions. I know the questions have been answered in various threads here and there but a summary would be great in my humble and uninformed newbie opinion.

Be sure that your mounting pole is P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y Plumb. I can't stress that one enough. The pole has to be true or it will never track properly.
1. make sure motor is at "0" degrees center (if not connect it to the receiver
with a short piece of coax and go into the antenna setup menu and drive it
perfectly on "0".

2. set your declination adjustment according to your location. (set it and
forget it)

3. Mount motor on pole facing somewhat south.
4. Mount dish on motor.
5. set dish elevation by using instructions with the motor according to the
magnetic deviation of your location. Here in Charleston wv its 6.02 degr
-ees subtract that from 30 degrees and you get approx 24 degrees dish
elevation. (24 works great on mine).
Dish elevation is now set at 24 degrees on dish elevation marker.

6. connect and mount lnbf (run lnbf straight up without any skew).
7. with receiver connected to a small tv near the dish (if you don't have
a bird dog) tune receiver to a known good transponder on your true
south satellite.

8. Snug u-bolts to mounting pole so motor can be turned by hand with some
resistance. Turn motor/dish assembly slowly east/west until you get a
signal. If no signal check all your settings and try another transponder.

9. when you find a signal, peak it east/west, then ever so slightly peak the
dish elevation.(dish elevation should need little or no adjustment.

10. using the receiver, move the dish electrically to a far west sat and check
signal level. If moving the dish up or down increases the signal, your
motor is not true south. If pushing the dish down increases signal, motor
assembly is too far west. Slightly turn entire motor/dish assy counter
clockwise and check again. Go to a far east sat and do the above steps.
if raising the dish elevation increases signal, motor assy needs to slightly
turn west or clockwise. when you can no longer nudge the dish up or
down to increase signal you are done- carefully tighten everything down.

11. Peak your focal distance on the lnbf collar by gently sliding lnbf closer
and further from the focal point of the dish, watch signal level (quality
level) disregard "level" meter on most dvb receivers. Quality level or
"EB% meter" is what your after on digital.

12. Now your all done and surf away.

Hope this helps a little
Truckracer

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Please excuse more dumb questions:

3. Mount motor on pole facing somewhat south.

By this do you mean close as you can get to your true south sat?

5. set dish elevation by using instructions with the motor according to the
magnetic deviation of your location. Here in Charleston wv its 6.02 degr
-ees subtract that from 30 degrees and you get approx 24 degrees dish
elevation. (24 works great on mine).
Dish elevation is now set at 24 degrees on dish elevation marker.

How much "rounding" is too much here? For example, Satfinder says my MD is -11.12 giving me 18.88. I guess I am safe with 19? But how about someone at 18.5?


One other thing-at what point do you set your limits and what is an example of what those numbers might be?

Thanks

 

[Tron]

If your receiver has USALS (the Coolsat does), it is easy to find your true south and to align your motor. Here's a step-by-step:

1) NEVER connect or disconnect anything, even the LNBF, while the receiver is on as this may cause damaging power spikes to the equipment. Before you do anything, check your motor to be sure its set at the '0' position. It should be shipped that way. If it is not, you will have to use the receiver to power the motor. Do this by connecting the coax from the input on the reciever to the appropriate F-connector on the motor. Turn on the receiver and use the button on the motor to move it east or west until its at center '0' position. Turn off the reciever and then disconnect the motor for now.

2) Turn on the receiver. I'm not sure how the Coolsat menus work, since I have a Pansat 2700, but there should be a menu for setting up each satellite. You will want to set up your true south satellite first. This will be the satellite which is located closest to your longitude. For me in New Orleans (longitude 90.1w) my true south satellite is Nimiq 1/3/Galaxy 11 which is at 91w.

3) The setup for the satellite will have settings such as LNB type, LO setting, DiSEqC port, and positioner setting. Your LNB type is Universal 1, LO of 9750/11600, and for now leave DiSEqC port to off or not used. There should be a choice of port 1-4 and off.

4) On positioner setting, there will be a choice of off, DiSEqC 1.2, and USALS. Select USALS. Again, since I don't have this receiver, I'm not sure of what the actual setup pages will look like. But there should be a sub-menu under USALS to enter your location longitude and latitude. Enter the exact longitude and latitude of where you live. Save the setting.

5) After saving the setup for your true south satellite, turn off the receiver. Install the motor and bracket so the bracket U-bolts are tight enough to hold the motor onto the pole without it sliding down but loose enough to allow you to pan the motor left and right on the pole. Face the motor generally toward the south.

6) DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN the U-bolts on the SG-2100. It is VERY easy to cross-thread them.

7) On the bracket that holds the motor there will be two scales for elevation of the motor. One will be on the right looking from behind the motor and will be called 'elevation'. The other will be on the left looking from behind the motor and will be called 'latitude'. I would set the motor using the 'latitude' scale to your geographic latitude, as close as possible. Lock the motor to the bracket, but still leave the bracket loose on the pole so it can be panned left and right. Point the shaft of the motor (which again should be at '0' position) south. There is no need to try to determine EXACT south at this time.

8) Assemble the Winegard 2076. Install it on the motor so that the motor shaft goes into the Winegard's pole mount from the top (slide the dish up onto the motor shaft, which will be facing downward). There is a hole in the motor shaft and a corresponding one on the Winegard's pole mount. Put a long bolt through this hole and your dish will be centered on the shaft. Tighten up the pole mount bolts (the one through the shaft and the other two that squeeze the pole mount onto the shaft).

9) Set the elevation on your dish itself. With the SG-2100 motor, your dish elevation will be 30 minus your your declination (see the table in the instructions that come with the motor and select the declination value for your latitude. For me this was 4.96, rounded to 5. So, in my case, my dish elevation was 30 minus 5, or 25). On some (possibly many) of the Winegards, there is an error in the engraved elevation setting of - 2 degrees. So in my case, my dish elevation being 25, I set the dish at 23. Your mileage may vary though, depending on whether or not Winegard has fixed this error on their newer dishes.

10) Connect your receiver to the motor and your motor to the LNB using the proper F-connector ports. Turn on the receiver. Select your true south satellite. The motor should move JUST A LITTLE to your true south satellite. Now you want to peak your dish on that satellite. First set your azimuth by SLOWLY moving your motor right and left until you find signal. If your dish and motor elevation settings are correct and you're facing fairly close to true south, you shouldn't have to move very far in either direction before you get some signal quality. Move right or left until you get maximum quality, then tighten the motor bracket U-bolts. Again, DO NOT overtighten them.

11) Next, peak your dish elevation a bit for added quality. DO NOT change the elevation of the motor itself (latitude setting on the bracket) to peak the dish, instead change the elevation slightly on the dish. Your motor elevation (latitude scale) should never be adjusted once it is set to your latitude.

You're set! The dish should now be tracking the arc properly. If you set the motor back to the '0' position, the dish will be facing exactly true south. Remember, your true south satellite may not necessarily be at exactly true south.

I hope that helps somewhat. It sounds like a lot of figuring, but once you see how it works, its really not that complicated. What you are doing here is using USALS to move your dish from your true south (given the latitude and longitude coordinates you entered in the USALS setup for your location) to your true south satellite, then peaking the dish there.

As far as the exact navigation of the menus on the Coolsat, maybe someone here on the forum who owns that receiver can do a more detailed walk-through of that particular receivers menus.

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Thanks Tron for an excellent walkthrough!

When I get the receiver, the first thing I am going to do is connect it to a Dish 500 setup (still aimed) just to get started and make sure it is working ok. I think then I will connect the motor/dish setup to the existing pole in my original photos for practice. I don't really expect to get much there because of trees but I might hit something.

What I really need to do is figure out a test rig of some type that I can move around. I am thinking about a pole in a bucket of cement and a pallet as well as a commercial stand. I want to make sure I have the best location before installing the pole. I have the motor set to my latitude (42) already to avoid confusion later. I will be refering to yours and Truckracers walkthroughs when the time comes.

Thanks again!

 

[TC_Lauderdale]

OK, after one hell of a late night (3AM) on the roof with my dish, motor, Viewsat, 8" TV, my laptop with lyngsat tuned and a nightlight, I finally tuned in my arc properly. Thanks for all your help, now I have to start managing my channel lists (yeah).

One question, does anybody else have a problem finding Intelsat 5 (97.0)? I can't seem to get a lock on any of the TP's.

 

[sharris]

T5 usually is extremely strong on quite a few transponders. In southern Canada I would die to have the same qual on G10. Wholly Crap, are you dedicated or what...3am! I know my neighbours think I'm a nutbar when they see me tweak and re-tweak...usually alot of questions around a communal campfire when everyones getting pissed up, like "what are you doing up there" etc.. When I tell them they usually think its pretty cool. Can't imagine what the neighbours thought when they saw a light moving around on top of a roof and heard "%$#@%^" and a few more choice words at 3 am. You should check with the FAA and see if they got any UFO reports from your neck of the woods. LOL.

Congrats on getting the arc right.

 

[Mr Tony]

T5 usually is extremely strong on quite a few transponders. In southern Canada I would die to have the same qual on G10.

T5 is pretty good in MN too...most are around 60 but as couple are bad.

Wholly Crap, are you dedicated or what...3am! I know my neighbours think I'm a nutbar when they see me tweak and re-tweak...usually alot of questions around a communal campfire when everyones getting pissed up, like "what are you doing up there" etc.. When I tell them they usually think its pretty cool. Can't imagine what the neighbours thought when they saw a light moving around on top of a roof and heard "%$#@%^" and a few more choice words at 3 am. You should check with the FAA and see if they got any UFO reports from your neck of the woods. LOL.

I thought I was nuts on the 4th (actualy 3rd) of July when they had fireworks going off. (I can see them from my roof). I was watching fireworks and fine tuning my StarChoice dish at 10:30 at night