Getting to OTA channels when cannot acquire Satellite?

[nebguy94]

Last night we had some very serious weather here in the Midwest (100 mile wind shears, baseball sized hail, tornados in multiple counties.) I went to my TV to check the situation and my 811, which had been last tuned to a satellite channel, was (understandably) unable to acquire satellite signal due to the severe weather. For the life of me I could not get the 811 to change channels to an OTA channel, while some of the error messages said I could cancel or use the Up/Down buttons to change channels nothing would get the 811 to stop trying to acquire the satellite and allow me to go OTA.

If you live in tornado territory you know how helpful it can be to see the radar imagery and have multiple sources of weather information during severe storms. Last night, after fighting the 811 for too long, I recabled so that my OTA antenna was connected to my TV's internal tuner. But I can't expect my wife to do that if she is at home alone with the kids when severe weather strikes. Splitting the antenna feed has resulted in a lot of difficulty maintaining acceptable signal strength (even with an antenna amp), so I'd really like to be able to find a way to get the 811 into OTA mode when it cannot acquire satellite.

Anybody seen this problem? Found a solution? Have any suggestions?

 

[n0qcu]

That is the way DISH has made the software, If you are not receiving a dish signal you cannot tune OTA. I think someone needs to sue DISH over the liability issue. (I would think they would be liable if someone was injured because they couldn't get the weather warning)

 

[gredneck]

I'm suprised the have taken that feature out of the software.
my receiver/vcr gives me the option to watch OTA when I lose a satellite signal.

 

[AcuraCL]

That is the way DISH has made the software, If you are not receiving a dish signal you cannot tune OTA. I think someone needs to sue DISH over the liability issue. (I would think they would be liable if someone was injured because they couldn't get the weather warning)

Last I heard, Dish wasn't responsible for making sure that people receive weather warnings. And I don't remember them making the claim that the 811 would receive OTA signals in the absence of a Dish satellite signal. A lawsuit against them would be a great way to cover some lawyer's next Lexus payment, but ain't gonna help anyone stay out of harm's way. Get a NOAA weather radio.

 

[nebguy94]

Last I heard, Dish wasn't responsible for making sure that people receive weather warnings. And I don't remember them making the claim that the 811 would receive OTA signals in the absence of a Dish satellite signal. A lawsuit against them would be a great way to cover some lawyer's next Lexus payment, but ain't gonna help anyone stay out of harm's way. Get a NOAA weather radio.

I don't know if Dish has legal liability or not, but if someone is convinced by Dish's marketing that Dish locals will give them the same ability to access information as they had with local cable, and it is suggested by Dish that with the OTA tuner they offer completely equivalent service, when a tornado is bearing down on your house it's a little late to learn that you are less able to keep yourself informed than you are with local cable... Whether Dish is liable or not they should really have the best interest of their customer's in mind...

As far as an NOAA weather radio goes, if you've spent anytime in the rural Midwest you know that NOAA information is far to broad in many cases. I've been under NOAA tornado warnings when there wasn't cloud overhead and looking at the radar I could clearly see that the storm generating the alert was 30 miles away, on the opposite side of my county, and heading away from me. NOAA alerts don't communicate enough detail, listening to radio coverage can take many minutes before you can figure out what is going on, but look at a radar image and I can immediately determine the situation as it relates to me, my house, and my family.

There's an OTA tuner in the 811, it should be accessible regardless of satellite signal availability. Of course, now that I 'know' the OTA tuner isn't accessible when the weather hinders satellite reception (boy that's a logical assumption to make isn't it?) I'll rework things in my house so that I have OTA capability even if satellite is unavailable, but this is one of those things that they should point out upfront, not let you learn as a tornado sweeps through your county...

 

[sirlurkalot]

Actually, not to rain on a parade...

The 811 user manual (see below) does say that the ANT-IN will only work if the receiver is "activated".

Now comes the stretch that does "activated" mean that it has to see a sat signal, or just be listed on the Dish Network computer?

I'm just glad that I live in CA... no tornados (just the occasional earth tremor and Black spider to contend with!).

 

[snathanb]

Last night we had some very serious weather here in the Midwest (100 mile wind shears, baseball sized hail, tornados in multiple counties.) I went to my TV to check the situation and my 811, which had been last tuned to a satellite channel, was (understandably) unable to acquire satellite signal due to the severe weather.
Anybody seen this problem? Found a solution? Have any suggestions?

If the weather was bad enough for you not to aquire the satellite signal, would you have been able to lock onto and hold a Digital OTA station?
Just wondering....

 

[nebguy94]

If the weather was bad enough for you not to aquire the satellite signal, would you have been able to lock onto and hold a Digital OTA station?
Just wondering....

Well, once I re-wired I was picking up analog. And my neighbor, with an integrated HD tuner in his TV, was picking up OTA digital as well. Nearby lightning strikes would cause instantaneous drop-outs of his digital but he said it was only the largest and/or closest strikes that caused the momentary drops. Similarly, my analog was fine barring momentary losses during the most intense lightning strikes. Ordinarily my 811 experiences better reception than his integrated tuner (whether it's the tuner, antenna, wiring, or other factors, is debatable) so I'm pretty confident that had I been able to change to an OTA channel on the 811, I would've been able to keep an eye on the weather reports and radar.

 

[JohnDoe#2]

The fact is that the OTA tuner in the 811 will not work w/o a satellite signal. It's the same for the Model 6000 and DVR921. This was even explained on a Tech Forum prior to the 1st shipment of 811s.

The analog OTA tuner in the 811 isn't that great anyway. For analog OTA reception with or without a satellite signal you would be much better off connecting your antenna directly to your TV ANT input.

Better yet, if you have a VCR run it thru the ANT In & Out of the VCR and on to the TV. Then you can record independently as well.

 

[Cyclone]

I don't know if this work around will work with the 811, but on the 6000, I had found that I could still use the "menu" button on the remote. From there, I could pick guide and then select one of my local channels.

 

[snathanb]

Better yet, if you have a VCR run it thru the ANT In & Out of the VCR and on to the TV. Then you can record independently as well.

I believe he mentioned that when he split his antenna input, it caused loss to the point that it interferred with the digital reception.

What the original poster may want to do is install an A/B switch, instead. That way, there should be neglible loss on the Digital OTA, then switch it to his VCR or TV Tuner input if he loses digital Signal.

Not perfect, but probably a better solution (the wife needs to be able to do it when he isn't home)

 

[SimpleSimon]

Maybe an antenna amplifier is in order - if the signal is so marginal, that it can't drive 2 devices, he's got trouble anyway.

 

[811Sucks]

i I don't know if this work around will work with the 811, but on the 6000, I had found that I could still use the "menu" button on the remote. From there, I could pick guide and then select one of my local channels.

That worked for me too using the 811. It's a good work-around.

 

[nebguy94]

Maybe an antenna amplifier is in order - if the signal is so marginal, that it can't drive 2 devices, he's got trouble anyway.

As I've been working toward a viable solution, it occurred to me that my problem probably isn't splitting the signal. As I thought about what I had been doing it struck me odd that splitting didn't cause a significant problem with my Digital reception, only my analog reception (none of my TV's have digital tuners). I was seeing that as the advantage of Digital all-or-nothing vs. analog degrading quality, but that doesn't make sense given the analog broadcasts are going out at a much higher power and are VHF vs. UHF.

But if I don't split I can get acceptable analog signal, an amplifier doesn't help the analog signal if I split, it just increases the interference...

So as I contemplate why... I don't think the problem is signal strength or splitting so much as it is my antenna is a UHF antenna, and the analog stations I tune in are all VHF...

I'll have to give both the A/B switch and the Menu workaround ideas a whirl and see what I come up with.

 

[keith]

A better algorithm is:

If(811 subscribed OR 811 receiving satellite feed) enable OTA;
else disable OTA;

Here is where I think the problem is. Receivers rely on the satellite data stream to determine if they are subscribed or not. If the data stream is lost, the 811 (and other Dish receivers) assumes it is unsubscribed and turns off the OTA receiver. This is pretty dumb. The receiver could just as easily assume it is subscribed when the data stream is lost. It's not like you can tune in to HBO while the data stream is missing!

But, with the new algorithm, you could subscribe the 811, remove the data stream, and tune in OTA indefinitely. This is apparently what Dish do not want to happen. One way around that would be for the 811 to have its own real time clock and turn off the OTA receiver after say 48 hours without a satellite data stream.

[Columbo]
I conclude that the 811 does not have its own real time clock and this algorithm can not be implemented. Just one more question...
[/Columbo].

Keith.

 

[snathanb]

Recent threads have discussed using the 811 OTA tuner without being subscribed or during periods of satellite outages due to weather.

We had severe thunderstorms tonight in DFW, so I did some experimenting.

I had complete loss of signal for several minutes...

1) Hit menu
2) Select Program Guide
3) Select OTA channel
4) "Searching for satellite message" screen came up
5) Hit menu
6) Hit Program Guide
7) you should now see your digital channel playing in the upper right corner (if you have picture in guide selected)
8) reselect the channel from the program guide
9) watch digital TV, use browse functions to switch between digital stations

I was able to reproduce this several times *with the satellite cable completely removed from the back of the 811*.

I do not know if the behavior would be the same on an unactivated box.