First HD Question

[Bassmaster]

I am looking into the Dish Network at this time and if I am reading this correctly it looks like I can only get CBS in HD? If I wanted to get the other network stations I could buy an addtional antenna, but would they be dish qualtiy viewing? I am about 35 miles from a major city and can't get television at this time without cable. I can use a OTA, but my picture is fuzzy. Would I get the same with using a OTA and the Dish? I was also thinking about waiting for the 942 receiver, but I also heard that would be outdated as well.

How does the HD from Dish Network campare to HD form Direct TV? I am still waiting and watching to see what happens with Voom.

 

[tonyp56]

Using an OTA antenna to receive DTV (Digital TV stations) either you get them or you don't. There is no fuzzy pictures, etc... I like the stations that I recieve through a OTA antenna going into my 811. They are better than the local stations Dish supplies, and when they play HD content (Superbowl a couple of weeks ago, wow, and I am not a football fan) IMO it is better than HD through Dish.

Whether or not you will be able to receive any digital TV stations in your area is tricky, I live more than sixty miles away from the towers in my area and I receive several of the stations using an indoor amplified antenna, but your area may be different, I don't know or there may not be any stations in your area that is broadcasting their digital signal yet(though I doubt it). But like I said, if you can receive them there is no video quality problems.

Go to antennaweb.org and punch in your zip code, they will be able to give you an idea of whats in your area and how far away, and what you will need to receive any DTV stations in your area.

 

[DVDDAD]

Tony P gave you some good info, but I just wanted to add to it. The OTA quality, if you can receive a reliable signal will likely be better than you can receive via Satellite or Cable. OTA is not compressed. At 35 miles you should be okay, especially if you are willing to put an antenna on your roof. You might luck out with an attic mount or indoor depending on what is in between you and the towers. Good luck.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

I have both CBS-HD and CBS OTA and I have done a few comparisions on the same set 60" GWII. I cannot tell the difference. If you can get Local OTA compared to regular Dish locals, yes the quality will be better. I could not tell the difference comparing what I would expect apples to apples on the HD front. My guess is that the CBS-HD signal is passed through by Dish so they are the same. Could be wrong but that is my observations.

As to OTA not being compressed, since it is MPEG-2 it is compressed by definition. . The win you get from OTA over locals is that even with SD content it is upscaled at the source which usually results in better PQ.

 

[sprintcarcrazy]

I live 30-35 miles from my stations and I pick them all up with the Zenith Silver Sensor, it looks like a toy, but it works, $20 from buy.com.

It depends on terrain between you and the stations. I have not seen direct TV's HD, but I recently tried Cable and HD was being pushed in 720P. Dish's HD looked much better, no doubt about it.

 

[wmhjr]

Hmmm....

Distance is only one factor. Remember, geography (both natural and man made) also plays a huge part. I'm only 12.5 miles from all my local transmitters, but there are some that are more of a problem than others. In my area, 35 miles would absolutely prevent HD/SD via OTA.

DVDDAD also mentioned something that shouldn't be overlooked. "Reliable" signal. You "kind of" get HD/SD or you don't. More accurately, you won't get a fuzzy picture. But, if you've got a marginal signal, you could easily get audio dropout, freezing of picture, blackouts, pixilation. Anything including foilage, weather, aircraft or even traffic could impact this - so it isn't constant. Generally speaking, if you can't get a decent analog signal you probably won't have much luck with digital OTA in my experience. That includes messing with a bunch of different CM antennas, amps, etc.

As for compression, I think we're really talking about Bitrate measured by mb/s. OTA typically has a bitrate of about 17 mb/s (really between about 16.5 and 17.9). Dish and Direct will often further compress the MPEG2 stream and lower the bitrate in order to add more channels per transponder. I've seen bitrates below 10 mb/s. That creates a lot of additional artifacts, "fuzziness", and a real loss of detail particularly in rapidly changing scenes. In other words, you'll see less difference if you're watching the scenery of the Arctic on Discovery HD than if you're watching explosions on the show "24".

I absolutely see a difference between OTA and Dish (I guess I should really say I "did").

 

[Kevinw]

I am looking into the Dish Network at this time and if I am reading this correctly it looks like I can only get CBS in HD? If I wanted to get the other network stations I could buy an addtional antenna, but would they be dish qualtiy viewing? I am about 35 miles from a major city and can't get television at this time without cable. I can use a OTA, but my picture is fuzzy. Would I get the same with using a OTA and the Dish? I was also thinking about waiting for the 942 receiver, but I also heard that would be outdated as well.

How does the HD from Dish Network campare to HD form Direct TV? I am still waiting and watching to see what happens with Voom.

If you are considering OTA take a look at www.antennaweb.org for locations and distance from towers.
HD from Direct and DISH are identical. Direct just costs more to hook up...
Voom could be a good choice with there 6 mos special.. You are not guarenteed to get CBSHD unless you live in specigic areas..

 

[KKlare]

When comparing bit rates, remember that your OTA digital channels may be splitting the 19 MBps (6 MHz) bandwidth.
For Albuquerque, there is a breakdown by channel.
The first PBS, the national PBS, is mostly like Discovery but has 3 MBps for copying the SD signal.
The second PBS channel is 1/4 each: PBS Schedule X - East, PBS Kids - East, PBS Schedule X - West, PBS You - East.
ABC channel shares some with 2 "OTA-cable" (USD) channels.
NBC and CBS use the full spectrum.
WB and UPN have 2 or 5 subchannels of USD.

Both PBS-1 and the second sure needs to be added to the guide. USD channels do nothing for us except reduce the quality of the main channels.
-Ken

 

[chevyN8]

Just to add something else...the towers may be operating at low power and my not even be broadcasting HD quality stuff. Of course this is how my situation is, most of the towers are within 28 miles, but operating at 3.6kw and only half way up the tower causes problems...plus only broadcasting DTV 480i. CBS OTA HDTV is really great though. Way better than the dish HDTV channels. CSI looks perfect.

 

[tonyp56]

I have both CBS-HD and CBS OTA and I have done a few comparisions on the same set 60" GWII. I cannot tell the difference. If you can get Local OTA compared to regular Dish locals, yes the quality will be better. I could not tell the difference comparing what I would expect apples to apples on the HD front. My guess is that the CBS-HD signal is passed through by Dish so they are the same. Could be wrong but that is my observations.

Yeah, brag because you live in one of the few places that can receive the only Dish Network, network feed, CBS-HD!

I was comparing TNT-HD, ESPN-HD, even the mighty HDNet movies to the HD that I was receiving over the air. I thought the SuperBowl was the BEST thing I've watched yet that was in HD. And it was OTA. Perhaps thats why I liked it so much, because it was FREE.

 

[wmhjr]

But not with HD

I'm comparing HD bitrates. Not SD. So, the channels I was talking about were complete 16.9 or so mb/s on that specific channel - the subchannel. That seems to be pretty constant. Of course, that's just here.

When comparing bit rates, remember that your OTA digital channels may be splitting the 19 MBps (6 MHz) bandwidth.
For Albuquerque, there is a breakdown by channel.
The first PBS, the national PBS, is mostly like Discovery but has 3 MBps for copying the SD signal.
The second PBS channel is 1/4 each: PBS Schedule X - East, PBS Kids - East, PBS Schedule X - West, PBS You - East.
ABC channel shares some with 2 "OTA-cable" (USD) channels.
NBC and CBS use the full spectrum.
WB and UPN have 2 or 5 subchannels of USD.

Both PBS-1 and the second sure needs to be added to the guide. USD channels do nothing for us except reduce the quality of the main channels.
-Ken

 

[wmhjr]

Most SD/HD transmissions are lower power

Remember, lower power requirements for SD or HD broadcast. Every one of my HD signals is being broadcast at far lower power. The problem is truly geography (rolling hills and trees).

Just to add something else...the towers may be operating at low power and my not even be broadcasting HD quality stuff. Of course this is how my situation is, most of the towers are within 28 miles, but operating at 3.6kw and only half way up the tower causes problems...plus only broadcasting DTV 480i. CBS OTA HDTV is really great though. Way better than the dish HDTV channels. CSI looks perfect.

 

[chevyN8]

Remember, lower power requirements for SD or HD broadcast. Every one of my HD signals is being broadcast at far lower power. The problem is truly geography (rolling hills and trees).

My local CBS station is broadcasting at about 500 kw. They claim it's half power and will be around 1000 kw eventually. The other stations are doing 3.6 kw, which is many times lower. The CBS station at half power comes in perfectly clear (93 signal via the 811) from 32 miles. Located at exactly the same directly as CBS, 2 of the other channels are 7 miles closer at the really low power and come in only when the sky is clear and at night(65 signal at most). For me the low power is hurting signal, but I don't really care since it's only SD.

 

[wmhjr]

Are you sure it's the power?

Are they on the same azimuth? I mean, could other environmentals be the culprit? Whoops - you said they were didn't you. Well, 3.6kw does seem pretty low.

My local CBS station is broadcasting at about 500 kw. They claim it's half power and will be around 1000 kw eventually. The other stations are doing 3.6 kw, which is many times lower. The CBS station at half power comes in perfectly clear (93 signal via the 811) from 32 miles. Located at exactly the same directly as CBS, 2 of the other channels are 7 miles closer at the really low power and come in only when the sky is clear and at night(65 signal at most). For me the low power is hurting signal, but I don't really care since it's only SD.

 

[PILMAN]

how do you get CBS through dish? I never saw that they offered it.

 

[WeeJavaDude]

how do you get CBS through dish? I never saw that they offered it.

You need to Qualify for it. Here is the link how you qualify for it.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/locals/cbshd/index.shtml

 

[PILMAN]

bah I didn't qualify. We have WKRG (CBS Affiliate) in Mobile, AL. There Analog only and I can't even watch there channel on my tv, it's completely shifted it's horrible. I called them and they said they don't give out waivers. I also told them I can't get antenna, and even then they don't broadcast in HDTV this sucks. Damn crappy locals.