I've now had some time to directly compare the overall service and features of both Adelphia HD and DVR functionality with Dishnet. As some may have seen already, I've made my decisions. However, I thought it would be helpful to provide some factual comparisons for others.
First, the setup. Both the Dishnet 921 and the Adelphia Scientific Atlanta 8300HD are connected to my Toshiba 46" DLP with integrated tuner via RGB. They are both connected to my HK AVR by Toslink Optical cables. I can instantly (OK, there's about a 2 second delay) switch back and forth between Adelphia and Dishnet on the same exact audio and video devices, and both using standard provided cables (No moster, AR, etc) with the exception that they both use AR Toslink cables. This is probably as direct a comparison as you can get without measuring instrumentation.
Let's start with the remote. The 921 UHF remote is clearly nicer. It has a better range, doesn't require line of sight, and has the 30sec skip function. it's laid out nicer and seems more intuitive. The SA8300 remote is a bit clunky, has no 30 sec fwd skip, the ff isn't as nice. Advantage: Dishnet 921.
Next, the User Interface. The 921 is cleaner, more intuitive, and better resolution. It also provides much nicer program info than does Adelphia and the SA8300HD. Some details, however:
The SA8300HD guide allows you to instantly jump to whatever day you want. The 921 forces you to scroll through days until you get the day you want, and the guide for OTA doesn't go nearly as far in the future as does Dishnet provided channels or any Adelphia channels.
The SA8300HD guide is faster than the 921, but frankly both are speedy enough for me.
The 921 allows you to start recoring a program, then while it's still recording start to watch it from the beginning easily. The SA8300 requires to to rewind back to the beginning manually. Then, if you're still watching it while the recording ends, it will stop. You'll need to start watching it again and FF until you get where you left off. A bit funky.
The SA8300 has NBR, and season pass. The 921 has neither.
The SA8300 has no ability to accept OTA signals, so no DVR or tuner functionality there. This is important, as it means if you have an HD "ready" TV but no OTA tuner, you'll need another tuner. However, this is really mitigated by the fact that Adelphia has all my locals in HD except Fox, so it's not nearly as important. The 921 can accept OTA feeds to it's tuner, and use the guide to treat OTA just like another feed. When it works, it's incredible. When it works. In my experience it has been unbelievably unreliable to the point that it often completely locks up my 921 to the point that I need to unplug and reboot. Also, since I can also connect my OTA antenna directly to my TV tuner, I've found that the 921 OTA tuner is "weaker" than the one in my Toshiba tuner. Signal drops far more frequently when the antenna is connected to the 921 than when connected to the Toshiba integrated tuner.
The 921 has 2 Dish tuners, and 1 OTA tuner. The SA8300HD has 2 cable tuners.
The SA8300 has a BUNCH of other possible connections: 2 firewire, SATA, USB, both Toslink and Coax digital audio, and HDMI. Don't know how many of them will ever be used, but great possibility - especially the SATA for more storage! The 921 is similar, except no SATA, no firewire, no digital coax, and gets DVI instead of HDMI. Clear advantage here to the Adelphia SA8300HD.
The recording capacity of the units "seems" to be very similar and HD, but for some reason it seems that non-HD content capacity is greater on the 921 than on the SA8300. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that statement.
HD PQ is pretty much identical on both units, as is Audio quality. Additionally quality of recorded content also seems to be identical.
SD (and analog for some channels on Adelphia) PQ is strange. On my Toshiba HD screen, the SA8300 seems to be upconverting somehow, and the PQ seems better than from the 921. That even includes comparing what are really analog programs from Adelphia (local Non-HD networks) to true SD equivalent locals from Dish. However, when viewed on my other non-HD CRTs, the 921 (or my 508's or 510) look a bit better. Really strange. But, it leads to a decision that I'll state at the end of this.
Reliability: No question at all, and no comparison. The HD8300HD always works. The 921 seems to work really well - except if I use OTA channels. Then, the thing is like driving a Ford Pinto. Looks OK back when it was on the showroom floor, but breaks down a lot and frequently blows up. One thing I want to emphasize here - there are a bunch of people who seem to be willing to accept less than optimal reliability in the 921 because they claim it's like a PC. Hogwash. Let me be very clear. PC's are highly variable in terms of hardware, components, etc. Then, anyone who wants to can modify them by adding programs, applets, services, etc. Further, you can modify the Operating System - which, by the way has to be designed to somehow accomodate a whole bunch of variability to begin with. Then, they get used in hugely different ways by a huge number of people - in laptops, etc. The 921 is ONLY used on the Dish network, and the software ONLY has to be designed for a very narrow focus of hardware, and for a very narrow set of features, with very specific standards. The OS does NOT get modified by users, and NO additional programs, services, or code can be added by end users. It's NOT mobile and is COMPLETELY controlled by Dish. To compare the Dish 921 to a PC is patently ridiculous. Some people are willing to accept less than reliable performance. That's fine. However the comparison to a PC is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard with respect to technology. There are processors/computers in everything these days, including in your car. So what. Further, Charlie has had a YEAR to fix the overwhelming number of bugs in the product, but they've discontinued it finally rather than fixing it. Dish and Charlie should be completely ashamed of themselves. Actually they should be prosecuted.
Conveniece: Again, no comparison. I live about 10 minutes from my local Adelphia office, so exchanges, fixes, etc, are a 30 minute exercise during normal hours, and appts are surprisingly easy to schedule if I need on site service. Also, no extra cost if something breaks.
Content: Once again, no comparison. Adelphia provides all LOCALS except Fox in HD. I also get HDNFL, INHD, INHD2, ESPNHD, HDMVS, HDNET, MAXHD, STZHD, SHOHD, HBOHD, and PBSHD. With Dish I get TNTHD, DSCHD, NBAHD and NY CBSHD that aren't on Dish, but miss all HD locals, STZ, INHD, INHD2, MAX, STZ. Adelphia seems to add HD content at a pretty rapid pace compared to Dish, both currently and historically.
Cost: For me, Adelphia is the clear winner. Overall, Adelphia still wins for everyone. Here's why.... I had to purchase NOTHING with Adelphia. I lease all units, get more programming, and even get movies on demand (not the ridiculous crappy VOD that does nothing except bilk us out of money) but really get content on demand if I want it. Didn't need to pay $549 for the 921, as well as buying my 508s and 510 outright (which makes me further angry about the VOD fee that Dish tries to get). I have no contract, and am not commited to anything. For equal programming (Adelphia Ultimate Plus versus Dish Americas Everything, both with HD) my monthly cost is slightly lower with Adelphia. Further, since I get my broadband internet from Adelphia, I get a further price break. So, lower monthly cost, cheaper broadband, and I save the cost of all equipment, and no installation fees, plus a variety of free service for the first couple months. And - if I want "standard" cable (non-digitals) on any more TVs in my house, I get it instantly and at no cost whatsoever
. No "6 unit limit". My home is kind of large so that actually is a factor for me.
Bottom line: To me, Dish isn't even in the game. They used to be, but are now not even second rate. Adelphia is the winner in every category I care about. Do I wish the interface on the SA8300HD was as nice as the 921? Yes. Will that help me get network HD content? No. Dumping Dish gave me more content, lower cost, higher reliability, more convenience, more flexibility, faster customer support, better response time, and a lower investment. Plus, I mentioned a decision earlier in this post that I'd discuss later. Well, what I meant is that I have 3 SA8300's. ALL of them are capable of HD. So, the cost for me to adopt MORE HD is only the cost of a set! As a result, I'll be adding another HD TV of a more "normal" size in our bedroom the next time I stumble on a great deal. With Dish, I'd need yet ANOTHER 921 at $549, but then I'd need to figure out exactly how I'd then get OTA to yet another room without losing OTA signal. Am I in love with Adelphia? Heck no - they've been theives in the past, and probably remain so. But, when forced to pick from a restricted group of choices, I'll take the "least bad" choice. I've tried to be very unbiased here. I probably have a couple more days before the shipping labels arrive to RMA my 921 back to Dish. If you've got questions, let me know.
First, the setup. Both the Dishnet 921 and the Adelphia Scientific Atlanta 8300HD are connected to my Toshiba 46" DLP with integrated tuner via RGB. They are both connected to my HK AVR by Toslink Optical cables. I can instantly (OK, there's about a 2 second delay) switch back and forth between Adelphia and Dishnet on the same exact audio and video devices, and both using standard provided cables (No moster, AR, etc) with the exception that they both use AR Toslink cables. This is probably as direct a comparison as you can get without measuring instrumentation.
Let's start with the remote. The 921 UHF remote is clearly nicer. It has a better range, doesn't require line of sight, and has the 30sec skip function. it's laid out nicer and seems more intuitive. The SA8300 remote is a bit clunky, has no 30 sec fwd skip, the ff isn't as nice. Advantage: Dishnet 921.
Next, the User Interface. The 921 is cleaner, more intuitive, and better resolution. It also provides much nicer program info than does Adelphia and the SA8300HD. Some details, however:
The SA8300HD guide allows you to instantly jump to whatever day you want. The 921 forces you to scroll through days until you get the day you want, and the guide for OTA doesn't go nearly as far in the future as does Dishnet provided channels or any Adelphia channels.
The SA8300HD guide is faster than the 921, but frankly both are speedy enough for me.
The 921 allows you to start recoring a program, then while it's still recording start to watch it from the beginning easily. The SA8300 requires to to rewind back to the beginning manually. Then, if you're still watching it while the recording ends, it will stop. You'll need to start watching it again and FF until you get where you left off. A bit funky.
The SA8300 has NBR, and season pass. The 921 has neither.
The SA8300 has no ability to accept OTA signals, so no DVR or tuner functionality there. This is important, as it means if you have an HD "ready" TV but no OTA tuner, you'll need another tuner. However, this is really mitigated by the fact that Adelphia has all my locals in HD except Fox, so it's not nearly as important. The 921 can accept OTA feeds to it's tuner, and use the guide to treat OTA just like another feed. When it works, it's incredible. When it works. In my experience it has been unbelievably unreliable to the point that it often completely locks up my 921 to the point that I need to unplug and reboot. Also, since I can also connect my OTA antenna directly to my TV tuner, I've found that the 921 OTA tuner is "weaker" than the one in my Toshiba tuner. Signal drops far more frequently when the antenna is connected to the 921 than when connected to the Toshiba integrated tuner.
The 921 has 2 Dish tuners, and 1 OTA tuner. The SA8300HD has 2 cable tuners.
The SA8300 has a BUNCH of other possible connections: 2 firewire, SATA, USB, both Toslink and Coax digital audio, and HDMI. Don't know how many of them will ever be used, but great possibility - especially the SATA for more storage! The 921 is similar, except no SATA, no firewire, no digital coax, and gets DVI instead of HDMI. Clear advantage here to the Adelphia SA8300HD.
The recording capacity of the units "seems" to be very similar and HD, but for some reason it seems that non-HD content capacity is greater on the 921 than on the SA8300. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that statement.
HD PQ is pretty much identical on both units, as is Audio quality. Additionally quality of recorded content also seems to be identical.
SD (and analog for some channels on Adelphia) PQ is strange. On my Toshiba HD screen, the SA8300 seems to be upconverting somehow, and the PQ seems better than from the 921. That even includes comparing what are really analog programs from Adelphia (local Non-HD networks) to true SD equivalent locals from Dish. However, when viewed on my other non-HD CRTs, the 921 (or my 508's or 510) look a bit better. Really strange. But, it leads to a decision that I'll state at the end of this.
Reliability: No question at all, and no comparison. The HD8300HD always works. The 921 seems to work really well - except if I use OTA channels. Then, the thing is like driving a Ford Pinto. Looks OK back when it was on the showroom floor, but breaks down a lot and frequently blows up. One thing I want to emphasize here - there are a bunch of people who seem to be willing to accept less than optimal reliability in the 921 because they claim it's like a PC. Hogwash. Let me be very clear. PC's are highly variable in terms of hardware, components, etc. Then, anyone who wants to can modify them by adding programs, applets, services, etc. Further, you can modify the Operating System - which, by the way has to be designed to somehow accomodate a whole bunch of variability to begin with. Then, they get used in hugely different ways by a huge number of people - in laptops, etc. The 921 is ONLY used on the Dish network, and the software ONLY has to be designed for a very narrow focus of hardware, and for a very narrow set of features, with very specific standards. The OS does NOT get modified by users, and NO additional programs, services, or code can be added by end users. It's NOT mobile and is COMPLETELY controlled by Dish. To compare the Dish 921 to a PC is patently ridiculous. Some people are willing to accept less than reliable performance. That's fine. However the comparison to a PC is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard with respect to technology. There are processors/computers in everything these days, including in your car. So what. Further, Charlie has had a YEAR to fix the overwhelming number of bugs in the product, but they've discontinued it finally rather than fixing it. Dish and Charlie should be completely ashamed of themselves. Actually they should be prosecuted.
Conveniece: Again, no comparison. I live about 10 minutes from my local Adelphia office, so exchanges, fixes, etc, are a 30 minute exercise during normal hours, and appts are surprisingly easy to schedule if I need on site service. Also, no extra cost if something breaks.
Content: Once again, no comparison. Adelphia provides all LOCALS except Fox in HD. I also get HDNFL, INHD, INHD2, ESPNHD, HDMVS, HDNET, MAXHD, STZHD, SHOHD, HBOHD, and PBSHD. With Dish I get TNTHD, DSCHD, NBAHD and NY CBSHD that aren't on Dish, but miss all HD locals, STZ, INHD, INHD2, MAX, STZ. Adelphia seems to add HD content at a pretty rapid pace compared to Dish, both currently and historically.
Cost: For me, Adelphia is the clear winner. Overall, Adelphia still wins for everyone. Here's why.... I had to purchase NOTHING with Adelphia. I lease all units, get more programming, and even get movies on demand (not the ridiculous crappy VOD that does nothing except bilk us out of money) but really get content on demand if I want it. Didn't need to pay $549 for the 921, as well as buying my 508s and 510 outright (which makes me further angry about the VOD fee that Dish tries to get). I have no contract, and am not commited to anything. For equal programming (Adelphia Ultimate Plus versus Dish Americas Everything, both with HD) my monthly cost is slightly lower with Adelphia. Further, since I get my broadband internet from Adelphia, I get a further price break. So, lower monthly cost, cheaper broadband, and I save the cost of all equipment, and no installation fees, plus a variety of free service for the first couple months. And - if I want "standard" cable (non-digitals) on any more TVs in my house, I get it instantly and at no cost whatsoever
. No "6 unit limit". My home is kind of large so that actually is a factor for me.Bottom line: To me, Dish isn't even in the game. They used to be, but are now not even second rate. Adelphia is the winner in every category I care about. Do I wish the interface on the SA8300HD was as nice as the 921? Yes. Will that help me get network HD content? No. Dumping Dish gave me more content, lower cost, higher reliability, more convenience, more flexibility, faster customer support, better response time, and a lower investment. Plus, I mentioned a decision earlier in this post that I'd discuss later. Well, what I meant is that I have 3 SA8300's. ALL of them are capable of HD. So, the cost for me to adopt MORE HD is only the cost of a set! As a result, I'll be adding another HD TV of a more "normal" size in our bedroom the next time I stumble on a great deal. With Dish, I'd need yet ANOTHER 921 at $549, but then I'd need to figure out exactly how I'd then get OTA to yet another room without losing OTA signal. Am I in love with Adelphia? Heck no - they've been theives in the past, and probably remain so. But, when forced to pick from a restricted group of choices, I'll take the "least bad" choice. I've tried to be very unbiased here. I probably have a couple more days before the shipping labels arrive to RMA my 921 back to Dish. If you've got questions, let me know.
