Eutelsat starts 4K demo channel

[Xizer]

http://tbivision.com/news/2013/01/eutelsat-starts-4k-demo-channel/22252/

Satellite operator Eutelsat is launching a 4K TV demonstration channel.
Eutelsat will begin transmitting in 4K from today. According to the Paris-based operator, the channel is designed to benefit everyone in the broadcasting chain who wants to acquire expertise in 4K, including production companies, pay TV operators, rights owners and TV set manufacturers.
Eutelsat has teamed up with video compression provider Ateme to deliver the channel, which will be uplinked from its teleport in Rambouillet, Paris.
Eutelsat is launching the channel to coincide with the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, where 4K or Ultra HD is expected to be a key highlight, with a number of new Ultra HD TV sets beingshowcased by consumer electronics manufacturers.
The channel will operate in progressive mode at 50 frames per second, transmitting in the MPEG-4 format at 40Mbps in four Quad HD (2160p) streams.
“This new step towards 4K continues Eutelsat’s longstanding commitment to achieving new broadcast milestones that over the last 20 years have included digital TV, HDTV and 3D,” said Jean-François Leprince-Ringuet, Eutelsat’s commercial director. “Early and close collaboration between all players in the broadcast chain will be a key success factor for this new revolution and so we are delighted to propose this first broadcast platform for Europe.”

Ugh. Europe always gets all the cool stuff first. So jelly.

 

[Martyn]

NHK's already transmitter Super Hi-Vision over satellite. That's 7,680 by 4,320 pixels, or so-called "8K." They bypassed 3D, saying 8K is so good it won't be needed, and will also ignore 4K too.

The picture is amazing, but it's only an occasional engineering test broadcast. Interestingly, most of the backhaul, including the 8K channels NHK produced for the BBC during the Olympics, were sent over academic IP networks (I suspect Internet 2).

I've seen it several times since 2002, and each time the camera, processing equipment and display system is a little smaller and better.

Last week at CES, I had the chance to speak to one of the engineers heading the project. The original plan had been to start ka-band satellite broadcasting in the format in 2020, but the Japanese government is pushing them to begin in 2016. They won't have the ka-band worked out, so it will likely be a domestic ku-band channel to begin with.

Although, something I've noted since moving to the U.S. is the high-def picture carried over cable here is vastly inferior to the HiVision signal all the Japanese networks put out. They maintain a very high technical quality of signal at something like 20Mbps over terrestrial, and more over satellite.

The signals coming over cable, which is what the majority of American homes watch, have many more compression artefacts and pixelation.

I don't hold out much hope for 4K if it's going to be compressed like current signals.

If they'd only drop some channels and free up space to transmit higher quality signals, current HD would look better, but that's a long discussion for another day.

 

[olliec420]

Nice to see content starting

 

[olliec420]

Although, something I've noted since moving to the U.S. is the high-def picture carried over cable here is vastly inferior to the HiVision signal all the Japanese networks put out.

That's because the American public is fat and lazy and will accept anything you put in front of their face.

 

[Xizer]

NHK's already transmitter Super Hi-Vision over satellite. That's 7,680 by 4,320 pixels, or so-called "8K." They bypassed 3D, saying 8K is so good it won't be needed, and will also ignore 4K too.

The difference between this, and NHK's tests, is that NHK used a completely proprietary environment, most likely encrypted. This 4K test feed sounds like it will be free-to-air, using the DVB-S standard, so any common European can tune in to it.

I would definitely like to see 3D 8K. I believe 8K is indeed the final resolution for home video before we move to some kind of futuristic resolution-less medium or holographic technology or something.

At over 33 million pixels it ought to be able to saturate human vision.

However, it is going to be quite some time before processing power and bandwidth catches up to 8K. I believe 4K is an important stepping stone to 8K, like 720p was a stepping stone to 1080p. 4K is just 8 million pixels. Leaping from 1080p's 2 million pixels to 4K's 8 million pixels is a much easier pill to swallow than leaping from 2 million pixels to 33 million pixels.

I think we are ready for 4K. Verizon FiOS, Google Fiber, and DOCSIS 3.0 cable products all have enough capacity to handle 4K video. DVB-S2 does too. 8K video would need a DVB-S3 standard or something.

All my current computer equipment can handle 4K with ease. Even my laptop has no problems playing back a 60 Mbps L5.1 H.264 4K test video I have (it actually uses less than 10% CPU or GPU usage when playing it back...)

8K though, I think would be a different story. Unfortunately I have been unable to locate 8K test material.

Although, something I've noted since moving to the U.S. is the high-def picture carried over cable here is vastly inferior to the HiVision signal all the Japanese networks put out. They maintain a very high technical quality of signal at something like 20Mbps over terrestrial, and more over satellite.

The signals coming over cable, which is what the majority of American homes watch, have many more compression artefacts and pixelation.

I don't know how accurate this is anymore. I have numerous HDTV recordings from Korean and Japanese channels. They all seem to be MPEG-2, just like us. WOWOW is the only one with a high bitrate of 20 Mbps, and they appear to be just as full of compression artifacts as our TV. FujiTV seems to be 9 Mbps H.264, NHK 13 Mbps MPEG-2, BS12 is 1440x1080 I think? So, really, Japanese HDTV isn't impressive at all right now, but I applaud NHK's initiative with 8K and I hope they are able to bring Japan back to the forefront of high definition television.

One thing that's very disappointing about Japanese TV is the audio seems to be stereo AAC at 192 Kbps most of the time. As I have tons of concerts from Japanese TV the inferior audio is pretty disappointing. American AC-3 5.1 audio @ 384-448 Kbps is definitely superior.

It is the Europeans who are the gold standard of HD right now. All their channels are H.264. Canal+ is 15 Mbps H.264; Sky Sports can go over 20 Mbps. This is quality similar to what we can only see on a backhaul here in North America.

I don't hold out much hope for 4K if it's going to be compressed like current signals.

Assuming the pathetic American television operators bitrate-starve 4K TV the way they do 720p/1080i TV, I think the crap 4K they push out will be a trojan horse for good "old" 2K HD because it ought to be on the level of good 1080p. Bitrate-starved 4K TV channels will at least have the benefit of finally bringing Blu-ray quality video to American TV.

All the cable providers could easily deliver 4K channels which aren't bitrate-starved by switching to an IPTV based system. (except AT&T and their pathetic U-verse product...) Surely you don't think they will be on QAM forever?

 

[Martyn]

Hey Xizer,

The difference between this, and NHK's tests, is that NHK used a completely proprietary environment, most likely encrypted. This 4K test feed sounds like it will be free-to-air, using the DVB-S standard, so any common European can tune in to it.

Here are the specs, although Eutelsat notes that when 4K takes off it will likely mean the introduction of HEVC.

Watch Eutelsat's Ultra High Definition demonstration channel on EUTELSAT 10A at 10° East:
Frequency: 11304 MHz
Polarization: Horizontal
Symbol rate: 27500
DVB-S2
8PSK
FEC 2/3
Pilot ON

I don't know how accurate this is anymore. I have numerous HDTV recordings from Korean and Japanese channels. They all seem to be MPEG-2, just like us. WOWOW is the only one with a high bitrate of 20 Mbps, and they appear to be just as full of compression artifacts as our TV. FujiTV seems to be 9 Mbps H.264, NHK 13 Mbps MPEG-2, BS12 is 1440x1080 I think? So, really, Japanese HDTV isn't impressive at all right now, but I applaud NHK's initiative with 8K and I hope they are able to bring Japan back to the forefront of high definition television.

The terrestrial channels are on ISDB-T, which splits the signal into 13-segments. Most terrestrial broadcasting uses 12 segments for the main signal and a single segment for direct to mobile broadcasts (hence the "One Seg" name). A 6MHz TV channel can carry 23Mbps, so a conventional 12-segment HDTV signal runs at a little over 20Mbps MPEG2. I think the One-Seg channel is H.264, but I'm not sure.

If you're watching recordings, it might be that they were recorded at that rate. The delivery into the home should be a high-bandwidth signal. I almost never saw any of the major networks splitting their 12-segments into chunks for additional channels (NHK's ETV, MX and Hoso Daigaku did regularly).

Satellite is a different matter. Each DBS transponder can carry a 52Mbps ISDB-S signal, which is split between two channels, so you have 26Mbps per channel in MPEG2 and the pictures look better. SkyPerfecTV channels are more compressed and don't look as good as the DBS stuff.

I don't know the equivalent calculations for ATSC because I haven't written in depth about, but I'd be interested to know what gets transmitted and what the average bandwidth of a high-def channel on Comcast. Perhaps it's the TV I have, but whatever the cause, I notice pixelation and digital artefacts around the edge of objects way more than I ever did in Japan.

Some channels are much better than others. Comcast mades Big Ten Network look horrible. A 16:9 picture letterboxed into 4:3 and compressed so much that when a player runs with the football, you can't really see what's going on. There's almost no point in them bothering, but I suppose it's more money and better than nothing for BTN fans.

As for Europe, I grew up with analog PAL and I still think those pictures were pretty nice

For 4K content, look at the announcement Sony made at CES. They're going to deliver 4K over Internet (download, not streamed) to Sony 4K sets. They're in an interesting position as the only consumer electronics company with native 4K content in-house. Kaz Hirai told me it would be restricted to Sony sets for the foreseeable future.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9235478/Sony_doubles_down_on_4K_resolution_technology

 

[tdti1]

I know Newtec is doing pretty neat things right now, not sure what equipment Eutelsat is using.
http://newproducts.newtec.eu/news/d...standing-500mbps-satellite-throughput-barrier

 

[Xizer]

I think Sony's 4K download service has potential assuming they go full hog and don't bitrate starve it like current 1080p download services. All I can say is it's about time someone makes use of our Internet connections.

Netflix's piddly little 5 Mbps 1080p streaming crap accounts for 10% of a typical 50 Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 connection's bandwidth capacity. Companies like Comcast and Cablevision are now offering 100+ Mbps connections. I have a Verizon FiOS with 150 Mbps... Time Warner Cable has already upgraded their 50 Mbps tier in Kansas City to 100 Mbps. They are testing 75 Mbps in Dallas, etc...

These are easily high enough to handle 4K bitrates. You could have an entire 4K movie downloaded within two hours on any modern cable connection. Right now the only way to use these connections to their full potential is via piracy because all the content providers are too busy catering to the lowest common denominator on the cheapest 6 Mbps DSL or cable package and ignoring everyone who is living in the modern world on a DOCSIS 3.0 or fiber connection.