E* loss of DNS hits the News

Tom Bombadil

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Angry customers may go from Dish to Direct

By Kimberly S. Johnson

Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:11/24/2006 10:26:00 AM MST

Alice Mitchell and her late husband had spent more than three months a year traveling the country in their recreational vehicle, using a Dish Network receiver to view local broadcasts from Denver and Los Angeles.

Earlier this month, Mitchell, who lives in Monroe, Wash., 35 miles northeast of Seattle, received a letter from Dish Network, telling her that she wouldn't receive those channels after Dec. 1.

Mitchell, 65, has been eligible to receive distant-network signals for RV travel because her local satellite signal dies once she leaves the area.

"They said our RV waivers are no good anymore," Mitchell said in a phone interview.

Mitchell is one of 900,000 Dish home, business and RV customers losing out- of-area network channels, following a U.S. district court ruling in October against Douglas County-based EchoStar Communications Corp., which provides Dish service.

Some customers have already been shut off. Most, like Mitchell, are frustrated.

"I'm going to lose the Eastern feeds," said Eddie Stintson, a full- time "RVer" currently parked in Aguanga, Calif., 50 miles northeast of San Diego.

"Home is where I park (my RV). Local signals are not designed for travel," he said. "When you get up and leave, say goodbye to locals until you get back."

In the October ruling, the judge upheld a May appellate court ruling that Echo- Star violated copyright law by beaming network programs broadcast from far-away cities to households ineligible to receive them.

Distant-network channels are ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox broadcast channels that originate outside a customer's local community.

To qualify for a distant signal, customers have had to prove they can't receive their local stations on an over-the-air antenna. In the past, when that has been the case, EchoStar customers could choose from a variety of local stations nationwide - even faraway markets such as New York City or Los Angeles.

But now, EchoStar customers will be restricted to local stations from their designated market area, generally the closest big-city TV channels. Dish offers local channels from more than 160 cities.

Dish subscribers in Denver who pay for local Denver channels will not lose their service, but local signals from other cities will be gone.

Jimmy Schaeffler, senior multi-channel analyst for The Carmel Group, said the judge's ruling is going to hurt EchoStar.

"It's a major thorn in Echo Star's side," he said. "Not only are they going to lose subscribers, but they (lose them) to the enemy."

EchoStar is the nation's second-largest satellite TV provider with a total of 12.8 million subscribers.

It competes with DirecTV, which is the No. 1 satellite TV provider with more than 15.5 million customers.

Since the court case went against EchoStar, DirecTV has been aggressively marketing in areas where Dish customers will lose their distant-network signals.

DirecTV, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., will check to see if customers are eligible to receive the networks.

If they are eligible, customers can purchase broadcast network packages from either Los Angeles or New York City, depending on whether they live in the Eastern or Western portion of the U.S., said DirecTV spokesman Robert Mercer.

EchoStar co-founder and chairman Charlie Ergen said during a November earnings call that fees for distant-network signals bring in $3 million in monthly revenues. The company expects to lose subscribers due to the shutoff.

"I think the part I feel worst about is customers trust us, and customers rely on us for their networks, and we as a management team made some poor decisions in hindsight," said Ergen during the call.

Earlier this month, U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont introduced a bill that would allow resumption of distant-network signals to EchoStar customers in remote areas.

Sen. Wayne Allard of Colorado also has introduced a bill to allow both satellite and cable-TV providers to broadcast Denver TV signals to subscribers in La Plata and Montezuma counties in southwestern Colorado.

The judge's ruling prohibiting distant-network service eliminates feeds of Denver stations to those customers because they are in the designated market area for Albuquerque, not Denver.

Congress will not meet until after Dec. 1, so there's no immediate relief for subscribers.

Meanwhile, Stintson, the RV owner from California, said that if he can't get the distant networks, he plans to switch to DirecTV.

For her part, Mitchell is tuning to the CBS website to watch streaming video of shows such as "CSI."

"It really rankles me that someone tells me that I have to go with my local affiliates," she said. "They're pushing me away and pushing me to the Internet."
 
Either way I think Dish will get them back sometime so overall no big deal. Dish is offering fix's for those folks in those markets so overall folks can still get their locals. In long run I think Dish will win the battle and get those markets back up..
 
because when DirecTV was told to requalify the base for distants, they did.

Dish decided to continue to offer distants to some people who technically didn't qualify and instead of saying "we'll requalify all our distant customers", they decided not to. And when they were told to turn them off, they appealed and appealed.
 
I think its all bull if I want to receiver locals from whatever city I choose, I think I should have the right to. As long as I am willing to pay for them and the city station they are from get a percentage of the money I pay.
 
There WILL be people who do NOT qualify with DirecTV too.

and they will have a very rude awakening when they cancel their Dish sub try DTV and get rejected for DNS from Directv. They'll learn about what Dish SHOULD have been doing all along.

I wonder if Dish will welcome those people back with some incentive.
 
Dish decided to continue to offer distants to some people who technically didn't qualify and instead of saying "we'll requalify all our distant customers", they decided not to. And when they were told to turn them off, they appealed and appealed.

Yet they did, at the time, shut off one of my networks...

We'll see what Charlie has up his sleeve come Friday...
 
I still don't get how DirecTV can offer these?

Question - Is this situation news to you or have you been following the various discussions for the last six months? I really can't believe anybody who has been around this board for any length of time can ask such a question. That's what I don't get. Even my 75-year old aunt understands the situation. Please explain. I really want to understand. If people with a special interest in DBS "don't get it," I don't know how the guy on the street will.
 
I think its all bull if I want to receiver locals from whatever city I choose, I think I should have the right to. As long as I am willing to pay for them and the city station they are from get a percentage of the money I pay.

Ah, forget it. It's not worth the effort......
 
I'm by no means defending Dish and their actions over the past years with this. To be honest, if someone cancels Dish over this and runs to DirecTV, I could care less. :D I will try and hold back my laughter if they find that they're ineligible with D* too though ! Then again, people have had PLENTY of time to investigate their options too.
 
Another half-witted reporter.

Angry customers may go from Dish to Direct

By Kimberly S. Johnson

Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:11/24/2006 10:26:00 AM MST

Alice Mitchell and her late husband had spent more than three months a year traveling the country in their recreational vehicle, using a Dish Network receiver to view local broadcasts from Denver and Los Angeles.

Earlier this month, Mitchell, who lives in Monroe, Wash., 35 miles northeast of Seattle, received a letter from Dish Network, telling her that she wouldn't receive those channels after Dec. 1.

Mitchell, 65, has been eligible to receive distant-network signals for RV travel because her local satellite signal dies once she leaves the area.

"They said our RV waivers are no good anymore," Mitchell said in a phone interview.

There is no such thing as an "RV waiver." Rather RV customers are defined as "unserved." An waiver is an act of grace by the local affiliate. In the case of the unserved, they have no say.

Mitchell is one of 900,000 Dish home, business and RV customers losing out- of-area network channels, following a U.S. district court ruling in October against Douglas County-based EchoStar Communications Corp., which provides Dish service.

No, the operative "ruling" came in May from the court of appeals.

.....

In the October ruling, the judge upheld a May appellate court ruling that Echo- Star violated copyright law by beaming network programs broadcast from far-away cities to households ineligible to receive them.

Um, district courts don't "uphold" appellate decisions. It's the other way around.

Distant-network channels are ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox broadcast channels that originate outside a customer's local community.

Technically incomplete but works for the purposes of this article.

To qualify for a distant signal, customers have had to prove they can't receive their local stations on an over-the-air antenna.

Not true in all cases but I'll cut her some slack.

In the past, when that has been the case, EchoStar customers could choose from a variety of local stations nationwide - even faraway markets such as New York City or Los Angeles.

A variety? Mean like Pocatello and Buffalo? NY and LA may or may not be faraway but the term certainly makes them seem exotic.

But now, EchoStar customers will be restricted to local stations from their designated market area, generally the closest big-city TV channels. Dish offers local channels from more than 160 cities.

Now what is wrong with this picture?

Dish subscribers in Denver who pay for local Denver channels will not lose their service, but local signals from other cities will be gone.

And this picture?

Jimmy Schaeffler, senior multi-channel analyst for The Carmel Group, said the judge's ruling is going to hurt EchoStar.

"It's a major thorn in Echo Star's side," he said. "Not only are they going to lose subscribers, but they (lose them) to the enemy."

I'm surprised he didn't vilify old Rupert.

EchoStar is the nation's second-largest satellite TV provider with a total of 12.8 million subscribers.

It competes with DirecTV, which is the No. 1 satellite TV provider with more than 15.5 million customers.

Since the court case went against EchoStar, DirecTV has been aggressively marketing in areas where Dish customers will lose their distant-network signals.

Sounds like a smart move.

DirecTV, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., will check to see if customers are eligible to receive the networks.

Oops, there it is.

If they are eligible, customers can purchase broadcast network packages from either Los Angeles or New York City, depending on whether they live in the Eastern or Western portion of the U.S., said DirecTV spokesman Robert Mercer.

EchoStar co-founder and chairman Charlie Ergen said during a November earnings call that fees for distant-network signals bring in $3 million in monthly revenues. The company expects to lose subscribers due to the shutoff.

"I think the part I feel worst about is customers trust us, and customers rely on us for their networks, and we as a management team made some poor decisions in hindsight," said Ergen during the call.

Where's the barf bag?

Earlier this month, U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont introduced a bill that would allow resumption of distant-network signals to EchoStar customers in remote areas.

Sen. Wayne Allard of Colorado also has introduced a bill to allow both satellite and cable-TV providers to broadcast Denver TV signals to subscribers in La Plata and Montezuma counties in southwestern Colorado.

What's so special about these two counties? If this succeeds, Katy bar the door!

The judge's ruling prohibiting distant-network service eliminates feeds of Denver stations to those customers because they are in the designated market area for Albuquerque, not Denver.

No, this "ruling" prevents E* from providing DNS to anyone. The unserved in those areas could still get DNS from D* - even Denver - if D* chose to provide it. Except for the small number of special (grampa) cases - no customer in those areas is probably eligible for DNS anyway since ABQ locals are available.

Congress will not meet until after Dec. 1, so there's no immediate relief for subscribers.

D*, cable, USDTV are options for some.

Meanwhile, Stintson, the RV owner from California, said that if he can't get the distant networks, he plans to switch to DirecTV.

Capitalism works!

For her part, Mitchell is tuning to the CBS website to watch streaming video of shows such as "CSI."

I wonder who is providing internet service to her RV? It looks like she found a solution - and Congress didn't have to do anything!

"It really rankles me that someone tells me that I have to go with my local affiliates," she said. "They're pushing me away and pushing me to the Internet."

Go to it granny. It rankles me when someone tells me I can't drive 90 or get the early bird dinner discount (not to mention a hundred other things).
 
because when DirecTV was told to requalify the base for distants, they did.

Dish decided to continue to offer distants to some people who technically didn't qualify and instead of saying "we'll requalify all our distant customers", they decided not to. And when they were told to turn them off, they appealed and appealed.

So, why can't DISH just now "follow the rules" and requalify everyone? It seems fishy to me.
 
So, why can't DISH just now "follow the rules" and requalify everyone? It seems fishy to me.
It's called punishment for breaking the rules. If the police pull you over for speeding, can you tell them "Officer, I'll drive the speed limit from now on," and have him let you go ?? Not likely...
 
psumattDE said:
So, why can't DISH just now "follow the rules" and requalify everyone? It seems fishy to me.
Back in 2003, Judge Dimitrouleas issued an injunction to have Dish Network requalify all of their distant network subscribers. Dish Network felt the injunction was too harsh, so they appealed to the Circuit Court. During the appeal, the injunction was stayed.

The network affiliate boards of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC cross-appealed, because they felt the judge did not read the law correctly, and that the punishment should have been to permanently cease Dish Network's use of distant networks. The affiliate boards truly cross-appealed because they wanted Dish Network's practice of giving distant networks to unqualified subscribers to cease. The affiliate boards would have been happy if everyone was requalified, because the practice would have ended. Instead, Dish Network took the stance that they couldn't lose, and wouldn't settle with the network affiliate boards.

So, when the Appeals Court issued their decision in May, 2006, the bench decided that Dish Network broke the law in every way possible, and that the only remedy was a permanent injunction.

At that point, it became too late to requalify everyone.
 
It's called punishment for breaking the rules. If the police pull you over for speeding, can you tell them "Officer, I'll drive the speed limit from now on," and have him let you go ?? Not likely...
But that is exactly what the trial judge decided. It was the Court of Appeals that decided Dish deserved the death penalty.
 
It's called punishment for breaking the rules. If the police pull you over for speeding, can you tell them "Officer, I'll drive the speed limit from now on," and have him let you go ?? Not likely...

The problem is that Charlie sold us cars that could speed, and now the judge is closing the highway....
 
Voyager6 said:
But that is exactly what the trial judge decided. It was the Court of Appeals that decided Dish deserved the death penalty.
That is why the Court of Appeals exists. The Court of Appeals is the "next step" to make sure rulings from the District Court apply law correctly.

Dish Network filed in their appeal briefs a total of 17 claims of error. The network affiliate boards only appear to have filed one claim of error. The Appeals Court agreed with the network affiliate boards' claim of error, and only found one error out of the 17 claims filed by Dish Network.

Let's not forget what would have happened if both Dish Network and the network affiliate boards did not appeal: Dish Network would have still had to requalify their entire subscriber base. The difference between the impending cut-off and the 2003 requalification would have been that at least the license would have existed for those that are truly unserved, either by being out of broadcast range or have a waiver (RV or otherwise).

Don't believe that because you are grandfathered you would not have had your networks taken away. Dish Network provided no evidence of grandfathered subscribers to the courts, so technically, no grandfathered Dish Network subscribers exist.
 

Can I get local channels with my antenna after getting dish?

Dish you suck at HD

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