dual LNB's and multiswitches

[rv1pop]

Confused here! I was under the impression that a dual LNB had one output vertical and one horizontal. The description on these says voltage switched, 13/18v. IF they voltage switch, will they work with the 4X4 switch to give two satellites with each polarity to four STB's?

 

[Mr Tony]

Confused here! I was under the impression that a dual LNB had one output vertical and one horizontal. The description on these says voltage switched, 13/18v. IF they voltage switch, will they work with the 4X4 switch to give two satellites with each polarity to four STB's?

yeppers

The primestar LNB's had a separate V and H but these Sadoun duals (as with most new LNBF's) will do both polarities through each output
Have a bunch of them and they work great. use one on the motorized right now

 

[rv1pop]

yeppers

The primestar LNB's had a separate V and H but these Sadoun duals (as with most new LNBF's) will do both polarities through each output
Have a bunch of them and they work great. use one on the motorized right now

OK This probably should go as a new thread... I figured out how to use the primestar LNB's for 4 STB's (or more - I plan on 6 STB's in small buildings and 2 STB's in the big one for 8 total). I know I want at least 2 KU sats. and one CU band sat. (Single polarity on C-band) and I think I figured how to do it. I was about to order the sale dual LNB's, but I can not figure a diagram to do this, unless I use a voltage switch after the sat selection switch to select one or other side of the dual, as if the dual had no switch.

1). Do I make sense;
2) Am I right or is there any easier way?

My funds are limited, so I am looking for used equipment, but If I have to buy new, sales prices are best. :

 

[Mr Tony]

broke it off to a new thread

 

[Mr Tony]

OK This probably should go as a new thread... I figured out how to use the primestar LNB's for 4 STB's

Primestar LNB's have a H & V side so you can use 2 of them on a 4x4 switch to run 4 boxes

(or more - I plan on 6 STB's in small buildings and 2 STB's in the big one for 8 total).

OK...little more tricky but doable

I know I want at least 2 KU sats. and one CU band sat. (Single polarity on C-band) and I think I figured how to do it.

so only 3 satellites total? And the C-Band is just one polarity?

Can I ask what sats you want to use? If its what I **think** it might be, there is an easier way

I was about to order the sale dual LNB's, but I can not figure a diagram to do this, unless I use a voltage switch after the sat selection switch to select one or other side of the dual, as if the dual had no switch.

scratching my head on this. I dont know what you mean. the receivers select polarity

I guess if you can let us know what sats you want, we can figure out something. Reason I say that is if you want G4/G16 for the networks and G10 for the Equity stuff, its pretty easy to set up then

 

[rv1pop]

Yes, I have some strange desires. We bought 20 acres so we could spread out. I have 2 sheds or "cabins" and 2 motorhomes now, with at last 2 more "cabins" to be built with a STB in each. Plus the Long House (shed) 30X72 with two viewing rooms STB's.

We want the G25 channels, possibly AMC4, and something for news as you noted on KU plus ORU - GBN(?) off AMC4 C I think. Of course, I will have some sort of Ham antennas at each location, also, but that does not need STB's!

Our plan is for a place for ministers to come and relax and for church youth camp activities. I will program the boxes to receive only the appropriate channels to match our missions statement, etc.

The run from the Dish farm to the Big shed will be about 30 feet from there to the MH pads about 70 feet and from the Big shed to the smaller sheds from 150 to 280 feet. I figure if I am careful I will have enough signal to do the job. Of course my other option is a CATV head end, but $$$$$!

 

[Mr Tony]

Yes, I have some strange desires.

you're in the right spot then

We bought 20 acres so we could spread out. I have 2 sheds or "cabins" and 2 motorhomes now, with at last 2 more "cabins" to be built with a STB in each. Plus the Long House (shed) 30X72 with two viewing rooms STB's.

sounds like a cool setup

We want the G25 channels, possibly AMC4, and something for news as you noted on KU plus ORU - GBN(?) off AMC4 C I think.

Golden Eagles Broadcasting?
SatelliteGuys.US - 101.0°W AMC 4 C

Our plan is for a place for ministers to come and relax and for church youth camp activities. I will program the boxes to receive only the appropriate channels to match our missions statement, etc.

ahhh...I see. So no crazy things on there then

The run from the Dish farm to the Big shed will be about 30 feet from there to the MH pads about 70 feet and from the Big shed to the smaller sheds from 150 to 280 feet. I figure if I am careful I will have enough signal to do the job. Of course my other option is a CATV head end, but $$$$$!

Oof...you got some pretty long cable runs there

If you have 3 things like G25, AMC4 KU and AMC4 C-Band there **Might** be a way then

Lets say the dish farm and switches are all centralized.
Run both lines from G25 into a 4x8 multiswitch (I'd use 13v+22k & 18v+22k)
Run the line from AMC4 KU to the H side (18v) of the multiswitch
Run the line from AMC4 C-Band to the V (13v) side of the multiswitch

This is if you want what is described above. Most of the Christian Glorystar channels on AMC4 are on the H side
SatelliteGuys.US - 101.0°W AMC 4 Ku

and if you do want GEB, thats vertical. This setup allows you to run 8 receivers off 3 satellite pots with one switch
I use to have in my setup G4 C-Band (networks) which are H polarity and G10 V mixed with another satellite (I forget what it was) which gave me 4 receivers seeing 3 sats with one switch.

See really crude drawing below

 

[Mr Tony]

now if it isnt centralized or GEB is not what you want, then we have to think of something else

also here is my thread on mixing G4 & G10 into a multiswitch
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/63099-do-you-think-possible.html

 

[rv1pop]

now if it isnt centralized or GEB is not what you want, then we have to think of something else

also here is my thread on mixing G4 & G10 into a multiswitch
http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/63099-do-you-think-possible.html

Yes, GEB is the one I want on C-band. I am thinking DANGER!

Bandstacked on G25 and AMC4 ku might give me better options. I was thinking of that first, then got sidetracked by the sale idea. Which would be better?

The Dish foundation is to be a little south and east of the Big shed. I have to watch the order of placement to keep from shadowing with the dishes. The run to the closet /room will be about 30 to 40 feet including elbows and rises. Then 30 feet across the shed and 30 and 40 feet to the RV pads. The maximum run to the furthest shed could be 280 feet from the closet, but most likely will be 150 feet. RG-11(I have) or heliax (can get) would be possible.

The idea of mixing to sats H and V as you show is a real possiblity.

Ah, the wind is dying down. It is only 12 mph, down from 35mph most of the day. Now to go out and see if I can get Glorystar back. It looks like that tin is warped again. I will have to get the 1M primestar set up for GS!

 

[gabshere]

i still like the switch jerryt used to get 16 lnb's a 4X8 switch and output to a diesqc switch for each STB 4X8 switch thread

but what ya'll are discussing is on a smaller scale
but is good information you can also use stacked lnb's

another thing to consider is if you don't already have the STB i find it much easier to get the same type box and flash the channel list to each box (sure cuts down on the work)

 

[Mr Tony]

Yes, GEB is the one I want on C-band. I am thinking DANGER!

hee hee

Bandstacked on G25 and AMC4 ku might give me better options. I was thinking of that first, then got sidetracked by the sale idea. Which would be better?

if the switch is near the dishes, I'd do a dual LNB for G25, a single for AMC4 KU and a single for AMC4 C-Band

The idea of mixing to sats H and V as you show is a real possiblity.

that was one of my crazy ideas that seemed to work...use to have both ports from a dual C-Band LNB to one side of the 4x4 multiswitch and a single LNB on 103 C-Band into the 18v+22k side of the 4x4 multiswitch and G10 into the 13v +22k side..that worked pretty good

Ah, the wind is dying down. It is only 12 mph, down from 35mph most of the day. Now to go out and see if I can get Glorystar back. It looks like that tin is warped again. I will have to get the 1M primestar set up for GS!

we've got 35+ mph sustained winds here in Minneapolis. very warm too

 

[Anole]

probably kick if he was hung with a new rope!

we've got 35+ mph sustained winds here in Minneapolis. very warm too

Well, you DID win, and I lost . . .
. . . so don't complain! -

 

[rv1pop]

We had a low of 26, a high of 48 and now it is 38! Looks like our peak wind was 54 mph, Over 30 from 6pm last night to 7:15 tonight! right now varies from 10 to 17.
I am going to try to get some pictures from the roof and see if I can show the lay out of my setup plans. Could not stand on the roof today. The tower for the wind generator may change my dish layout plans, but I will wait to hear what the engineer says about the wind load dishes put on the tower. I do not want to go to 4" tower. 2 1/2 is expensive enough. -- And dishes on tower would make it hard to tip over to work on generator, BUT the extra 20 feet of co-ax cable runs vs. shadow from tower on dishes...? But then anchor guy wire to east end of dish foundation and set tower on west end of it might solve that, only having to watch for shadow of the south guy wires. Hmm Thinking again! Load the guy wires as an inverted V for 40 and 20 meter ham bands ...

 

[Anole]

still only 3 birds

To flesh out the bandstacked idea . . .

Sadoun sells this C-band bandstacked LNB pretty cheap.
Used to offer it with scalar, not sure why not any more.

We've discussed the Ku band Dish/EagleAspen FSS LNBs, and where to get them.

A surplus Dish DP-34 switch will take three LNBs and drive four receivers.
You can cascade two DP-34's to feed eight receivers.
You can cascade three DP-34's to feed 12 receivers.
Not sure what the limit is, but they are amplified, so you really should not have any problems.

You would need to set your receivers to all supply 18 volts (H) to the switches to run them properly.
Doesn't seem a big problem.
Cascading the switches requires three short cables between them.
I've gotten the switches for $10 at swap meets, or free on the way to the dump.

For the cost, effort, and complication, I don't see this way being much different from that outlined by Iceberg.
You would have to make up three short RG6 jumper cables.

There is only one useful consideration that might make the bandstacked idea better.
You could get both polarities of all three birds at all receivers.
That's about it.
Oh, and it would be easy after-the-fact, to add a few more receivers.
Even so, I can't make a strong argument, for this approach...

. . . just talkin' to myself . . . -

 

[gabshere]

yeah but that neat lil drawing you made layed it all out nicely that was a good job

i do like the bandstacked lnb's but still don't have any. i would like to try them but so far i have a lot of irons in the fire

 

[Mr Tony]

A surplus Dish DP-34 switch will take three LNBs and drive four receivers.
You can cascade two DP-34's to feed eight receivers.
You can cascade three DP-34's to feed 12 receivers.
Not sure what the limit is, but they are amplified, so you really should not have any problems.

that would work too

You would need to set your receivers to all supply 18 volts (H) to the switches to run them properly.

actually its 13 volts

For the cost, effort, and complication, I don't see this way being much different from that outlined by Iceberg.
You would have to make up three short RG6 jumper cables.

There is only one useful consideration that might make the bandstacked idea better.
You could get both polarities of all three birds at all receivers.
That's about it.
Oh, and it would be easy after-the-fact, to add a few more receivers.
Even so, I can't make a strong argument, for this approach...

. . . just talkin' to myself . . . -

you'd have to fabricate something for the KU stacked LNB's since they don't fit the 40mm holder...duct tape would work

 

[rv1pop]

Thanks for the information. Now I am really thinking! I am going to have to build a map of the property and then try to draw in all the cables and switches that it will take to get the job done... The DP34 switches sound interesting - just have to refigure what they do and why! Amplified - Noise figures.
When I was younger I could think fast. Now that I have gotten older, I have so much more information to process, so it takes longer.

1).Standard LNB's and standard switches are easier to find and should be available, off the shelf forever --.
2). Bandstack LNB's & surplus switches can go out of production. Where will I find them in 50 years?? (I have ham gear I have had for 50 years! Now where can I get a 1625 final!)
3). Will either take more hardware to do the job?
4). will either take more / less coax or waveguide to do the job?
5). Individual dishes or multiple LNB's on one dish? Easiest aim, maintain, mount - space not problem - shadow might be. Cable runs.
6). Who takes care of farm when I finally retire? - Or if I am on the road...

I am thinking --DANGER -- High Joltage -- 500,000 ohms -- DANGER

 

[Mr Tony]

1. Probably...and there are a multitiude of option. With bandstacked you're kind limited
2. true.
3. my setup is 3 LNB's and a 4x8 multiswitch. Bandstacked is 3 LNB's and 2 switches (DP34 has only 4 outputs)
4. Other than one extra cable run from the LNB (G25) to the switch, same amt of cable
5. irrelevant. Dish is the same. You could do 2 LNB's on one dish but then there is rain fade issue
6. only you can answer that

 

[rv1pop]

1. Probably...and there are a multitiude of option. With bandstacked you're kind limited
2. true.
3. my setup is 3 LNB's and a 4x8 multiswitch. Bandstacked is 3 LNB's and 2 switches (DP34 has only 4 outputs)
4. Other than one extra cable run from the LNB (G25) to the switch, same amt of cable
5. irrelevant. Dish is the same. You could do 2 LNB's on one dish but then there is rain fade issue
6. only you can answer that

Thanks Tony. I went out and looked at the wind damage from yesterday. I will probably order one of the 3ABN dishes and try it (on AMC4!). The tin one is warped again . Dish did not move, but LNB arm is east by 3/4 inch. I am going to have to get a wall mount for the 1M primestar and put it up for G25 then try to add AMC4 and others. My 75e held up perfectly on G10R.

I will go with your suggestion on the dual for G25 and singles for the others. I have been out taking some pictures, also. I will try to get them into the computer so I can post them! :

Thanks to you, also, Anole, for the information, and the links. I ALMOST would ask for you to send some of that warm weather this way, but, NO! Our HOT weather will soon be here. How do those green lizards do at 125* with a 40 MPH wind?

Thanks again, all. Will keep you posted.
POP

 

[Mr Tony]

Pop
I don't know what size of a dish you were looking at using for Golden Eagles but I just tried on my 6 footer and got 60+ quality (even with the dent in the dish so it does lose some signal) so its plenty strong

Also Cornerstone TV is at 90-93 quality.