Down With The 3ABN Dish, Back To Fortec Star 80CM!

[FTABman0]

I am ready now to paint a bull’s-eye on the 3ABN dish and load up the old shotgun for practice! Over a week now I tried everything to get that darn thing to work! It works great on the west side of the arc but when I go east like to 61.5, it is not there. Tried everything! I changed the pole to a new one today and double braced the pole, she is straight up on the money, used a bubble level on the top and it stays level east to west. I used an angle finder magnetic one on the pole, it is always straight up and down!

I changed the switch out to a new one, true south is right, elevation right on the money, magnetic figured in, LNB right position at 0 skew. I have tried all the tricks and nothing. Great signals on the DBS birds well some of them, 10 R K on this dish signal is great but move east and it is just metal bolted to a pipe mast, looks good but looks don’t pull in TV! I have had it trying. I worked on this all day today with the same results when I first got it. So, I got the Fortec Star 80 CM back up and guess what? Less than 2 minutes back up tracking all birds in my LOS east to west like I never took it down!

Now I know there are going to be someone to tell me about the GEOSAT warped dish syndrome, done that twice! I checked it when it came here last week and checked it today. No warpage! Flat like a pancake all around! I don’t know if the arm is bent or not but seen Icebergs suggestion on arm bending, bent a bit and back and back nothing, does anyone have one of the 3ABN dishes assembled close on the ground where they can give me bore site measurements’ like I saw in one thread with the GeoSat dish that Satellite AV drew in this thread? Measurements’ from the top of the dish down to the LNB bolt & maybe side arm to right & left side. I am at my wits end here and let’s say I am done going up and down the ladder now for a couple weeks. I am going to assemble the dish later on with it down on the ground maybe this weekend if someone has any suggestions on this stupid thing.

The only thing I have not tried is the second B elevation setting on the dish mount. I really don’t see how that can make too much difference in anything like no signal moving the elevation up and down. The in-line sat meter needle never moved a bit at 61.5 like the bird is not there at all. Position wise it is there by compass but the LNB sees nothing, east sats looks dead on by eyeball but nothing? Move back west and some are there, some are not like my true south Nimiq 2 seems lost but I got Nimiq 1 at 98-Q! 110 97-Q and 119 98- Q. Go to 10RK and 96 to 97-Q! Got me puzzled! Got to be the dish! I asked this question about the Invacom weeks ago in the 3ABN thread I started but never got an answer, on the LNB clamp for the Invacom is all the way back like on the other dish? Or has any other user of this dish and Invacom got any better results moved forward or back? I got my box back full force now so any answer or suggestion on a fix or telling me what’s wrong will keep it out of my local bulletin board for sale for the DBS systems under the heading, “(90CM Dish For Sale, Eliminate Rain Fade For D* N or D* TV)!”


Picture 1. old pole the Fortec Star 80 CM was on for 3 years
Picture 2. New pole with better support (3ABN pole reinforcement mounts on) Dish at Galaxy 10 RK
Picture 3. The 3ABN Dish at takedown with a Fortec Star FSKU-V LNB for reference.
Picture 4. Dish mount to dish arm bracket
Picture 5. Looking dead on to LNB & Dish

 

[Anole]

Okay, I'll take a stab at it:
1). when you run the dish from east to west, is there ANY drag on any of the cables?
- the LNB cable needs to be attached to the support arms before it exits the back of the dish
2). have you watched the bubble level while slewing the dish from full east to full west?
3). I don't see any clear pictures of the mount, nor construction of the front LNB support arms, etc.
- I'm thinking an assembly error, or maybe you were shipped a wrong part.
- we need side view pictures of the dish when parked at true south.
- several shots of the mount from different angles would help.

I imagine others will have more thoughts.
And once you post those pictures, you should see even more feedback.
I'm sure we can figure this out.

 

[FTABman0]

Okay, I'll take a stab at it:
1). when you run the dish from east to west, is there ANY drag on any of the cables?
- the LNB cable needs to be attached to the support arms before it exits the back of the dish
2). have you watched the bubble level while slewing the dish from full east to full west?
3). I don't see any clear pictures of the mount, nor construction of the front LNB support arms, etc.
- I'm thinking an assembly error, or maybe you were shipped a wrong part.
- we need side view pictures of the dish when parked at true south.
- several shots of the mount from different angles would help.

I imagine others will have more thoughts.
And once you post those pictures, you should see even more feedback.
I'm sure we can figure this out.

Anole,
1. no drag on cables at all
2. bubble stays level east to west, thought of that one
3. Pictures I will take in the daylight today for ya! Mount is rock solid, I used the support bracket three years ago that came with the 80 CM and used the support backets on the roof that came with the 3ABN this time, I will get pictures to you first light!

Thanks for the post! I fixed my Hispasat problem though this problem arose! See my Hispasat post in a few! I want to thank you for your input on that post as well! You guys help keep us sane when problems arise and we give up! I will get you pictures at first light!

Thanks again!!

 

[Tron]

It is possible to use the wrong parts (swap the pole support tubes for the LNBF feed support tubes), but then you wouldn't get anything with the dish.

When you take the new pictures, be sure to include a couple of profile (side view) pics of the LNBF support tubes.

 

[laseradam]

Sometimes you can warp a 3ABN dish when you tighten down the 4 bolts that hold the dish to the mount. Once you get the dish bolted to the mount, then check it to see if it is still flat.

I have had a 3ABN dish "spring or warp" in extreme temprature changes when the 4 bolts are not tightened down evenly.

When you tighten the 4 bolts go back and forth between the 4 bolts and tighten each of them a little at a time until they are all tight.

Also I think the dish mount can be bolted on upside down. I'm not sure if that makes any difference with a motor as I have never done a motor install.

 

[FTABman0]

It is possible to use the wrong parts (swap the pole support tubes for the LNBF feed support tubes), but then you wouldn't get anything with the dish.

When you take the new pictures, be sure to include a couple of profile (side view) pics of the LNBF support tubes.

Tron, the support tubes and the LNBF arm support are very different. No way could you get those confused. (See Picture Of Installation) It was also suggested that the dish mount was upside down, nope again for there is an arrow showing up on the dish assembly diagram. This dish is put together as of the assembly schematic paper that came with the dish. Another suggestion by laseradam was the dish bolts over tightened. I will try that and see what transpires there. This dish is down right now so pictures will be of it down. Since I spent all day yesterday messing with it to no avail I will leave any more tinkering to the weekend! Anole also suggested that he wanted to see the dish on the motor at my true south, but being tired last night at the time of post I said I would get pictures of it but forgot that the dish is down right now and the 80 CM is back up in its place.

I really do not think as he suggested that the problem is the mount, pole or motor elevation position as I got every satellite back in my LOS in the arc before with the old 80 CM dish back up. It has to be the dish itself causing the problems. I will post some pictures of the dish and again later on today, it is not up right now but on my front porch on a temp mount clamped down. With the hours of messing with it this and the past week I am about wore out! Again, the only thing I have not done yet it re-assemble the dish using the “B” elevation option on the installation paper. I moved the elevation up and down anyways till my hearts content yesterday with nothing so I think that that would not affect much!

I am set right now in the “A” position as for my elevation area. I think the LNB focal distance is screwed up some how but can’t figure out how or where to start to rectify the problem! I moving west it sees the 110 – 119 bird fine and even 10 RK with rock solid signals but low on Nimiq 1 and Nimiq 2, past that east this thing sees nothing as I move farther on the arc. Mount and pole stays right on plum and on level east to west. I first thought also that the weight of the 3ABN was pulling the motor down when it moves east at first but no, not the issue.

Like I said it only took less than 2 minutes to put back the 80 CM dish with new switch change (old one was fine but changed it out anyway) and a new identical pole, no problems. Back on the arc with all sats just like I never took her down, and even with replacing the pole yesterday fixed my long wanting Hispasat problem! I gained to more satellites in the process of getting the day started yesterday with the 3ABN so I guess the day was not ruined! I will try the suggestions again; I value all options here so I really appreciate the help you men have given thus far!

Detailed pictures of the dish will come this afternoon after I get done with in town things today!

 

[FTABman0]

3 ABN Dish And Fortec Star Pictures

Pictures of the 3ABN dish and my current mount set up with the Fortec Star 80 CM as requested!

 

[Wescopc]

FTABman0
Would you measure from the centerline of the LNB holder bolt - to one of the lower reflector (dish) mounting bolts. Should be about 19 1/4 inches. See attached picture.
Bob

 

[starman345]

This should affect all dishes you use, not just the 3ABN so I'm not sure it could be helpful, but I noticed in one of the dish/motor pictures, the u-bolts that hold the motor to the mast are not equi-distance from the pole. The bottom of the motor bracket is noticably closer to the mast than the top. This throws your elevation-lattitude settings off. It may just be the camera angle that makes it look like its off, worth taking a closer look at though.
Check out the picture to see how I fixed my sagging bracket.

 

[SatelliteAV]

It is possible that the combination of the dish elevation setting (declination), motor elevation angle and the LNBF arm offset (correct or incorrect) angle could be set up correctly to track the arc, but change to a new dish (either incorrect or correct) LNBF arm offset and the unit will no longer track.

Example: If the Fortec Star 80cm dish had the incorrect LNBF arm offset, but the combination of the dish angle setting and the motor elevation angle corrected the offset error, then the dish could accurately track the arc. Substitute a new dish with the correct LNBF arm offset angle and the combination of the dish angle setting and the motor elevation setting combination would need to be corrected.

 

[FTABman0]

3ABN Follow-UP

FTABman0
Would you measure from the centerline of the LNB holder bolt - to one of the lower reflector (dish) mounting bolts. Should be about 19 1/4 inches. See attached picture.
Bob

Measured it and we get from the centerline of the LNB holder bolt - 19 and a half exactly! Well now, how do we fix this since the arm has the two brackets holding the arm where it is? This was very useful information Bob thanks, I and most people "assume" that all there is to do is put together and up and it's that easy but alot needs to be taken in consideration. My box that the 3ABN came in was a bit manhandled and some of the Styrofoam was tore up a bit.

SatelliteAV,
I did replace the pole on the mount when I started the 3ABN project yesterday. I had the motor in the house for a bit resetting it to "0" before I set it back up. I never messed with the motor elevation settings on the motor itself I left them the same. Do I need to re-do the calculations again like a brand new setup on the motor to? I never did that and come to think of it never gave that option much thought, I figured since it was at true south on the Fortec why readjust that part again. I will this weekend start all over again like everything is brand new, loosen the motor up and figure in elevation + Latitude settings and go from there.

starman,
No, that picture you saw that the motor looked close was a zoomed in picture standing underneath and looking up at it. The angle made it look like it was close. I would have to say where the dish is on my out building to the top of the pole it is over a story high. Starman, replacing the pole and moving the motor up to the top 3 ½ inches higher than it was 30.0°W Hispasat 1C.1D Ku popped in and I have 43.0°W Intelsat 3R Ku now also! I posted it on the previous Hispasat thread I started! Thanks for all your help on that one!

I did everything by the book with this new dish. It is a shame that a whole day was wasted on something like a bent LNB arm! I think they should include measurements like that in the assembly instructions just in case! The warped dish during shipping thing should be on the paper also or another paper included with instructions to test. I guess they save paper that way!

As always, Thanks guys for your time! I value all opinions here!

 

[Wescopc]

FTABman0
I don't think the 1/4 inch difference will cause you any trouble. I thought that maybe the wrong support rods were supplied/installed. I would not use the 19 1/4 inch measurement as the standard. I measured that distance on a SatPro dish that could be off a little bit. My experience would indicate that you can move the sweet spot around a little bit. The main thing I have found is the dish needs to be straight, have you checked it with two strings - one vertical one horizontal. I will stay tuned to what you learn.
Bob

 

[FTABman0]

3ABN Set Stationary Troubleshooting Today

FTABman0
I don't think the 1/4 inch difference will cause you any trouble.
Bob

I am glad to hear that! I really do not want to go bending around on it if possible. A little maybe but I can see with the support brackets on there where that can't be real good and something else could get bent out of shape doing that!

My experience would indicate that you can move the sweet spot around a little bit. The main thing I have found is the dish needs to be straight, have you checked it with two strings - one vertical one horizontal.

I will try that today! I will set it up stationary and aim for a KU bird like G 10 RK and see what’s wrong. I suspect now that something is bent during shipping. I will check the support arms today for any bends and disassemble the LNB arm to see if it is straight. I told myself the night I took it down and put the Fortec Star back up that I was tired of climbing up and down the ladder and was going to ground it for troubleshooting. That will make it easier.

:up Thanks Bob for that advice and something new to try! With all the suggestions I should find the culprit and get this thing up and get good use out of it! Every suggestion so far I have done so there can't be too much more to rectify the problem now.

“There can only be a few things wrong but after you fix everything that makes it work, and it still nothing, it’s junk!” Leo Laporte Quote I Remember In One Of The Tech TV Leo Laporte's Technology Almanac Books. I Guess This Applies everywhere!

I will keep you guy's in the loop on what transpires!

Kevin

 

[FTABman0]

3 ABN 90 CM Dish DEAD!! R.I.P.!!

I would like to thank everyone that gave me advice on the 3ABN dish for the last couple days! Your help and input did fix the dish and well, It worked for a short time today before we had a little storm blow through here about 6:30 PM with about 30 – 50 MPH winds! Well to say in short, two bolts striped out and the main motor bolt broke and it came crashing down! I was in the middle of repositioning the motor from finger tight to wrenching them down when the storm came through! Wind was strong at times enough to take her OUT permanently! It has a severe case of warp now, the dish bolt holes are bent it up good and the reflector is shot, the only thing that survived the wind take down were the back of the dish mount, side arms and LNB mount! It took my Invacom right to the ground and broke the LNB clamp right off! The Fortec Star is up temporarily the Invacom seems to be fine! I have the worst luck in the world!

It looks worse than the pictures!! It is really bad!!

There is no fixing it this time! SUX!!

Now I know how Iceberg must of felt when he found his BUD down! I was not in a good mood let's just say! After tinkering around on this thing then we get it, then this!

Now, the problem that made this dish not work out of the box was bent support arms that pulled the LNB to the left a bit. After I fixed that and tested it stationary, it pulled in every bird I pointed it at today! Now I seriously doubt that it will pull anything now! It is beat up real good from the fall. The darn bolt that I used to secure the motor one of those Metric bolts that I thought I replaced already but taking it down the other day I put the metric back in!

My loss but your gain! Read the thread on replacing the bolts to SAE from Metric that the dish shipped with! I figure if I had a SAE bolt in there it would be still up!

Guess I am going to get a Fortec Star 90 CM dish now from Sadoun! Sidewalk sale, I will be there!

Lesson here learned is that Metric bolts suck, Check for bent arms on a new dish, never play with a dish in a wind-rain storm! Got it working and plat! Guess it was not in the cards for me to own one of these!

Thanks again guys for the help on this one again. It broke and it is my fault, should have been on my game with the bolts and threw the Metric ones away! Had them in one of my satellite gift boxes along with everything else up on the out building, everything on the roof in one place and grabbed the wrong one! Guess we can use it for a nice sled for the kids this winter!

I got a nice tan for the last couple days working on it though! Guess it could be worse like busting up my Invacom or taking the motor with it today! I guess I can look at it that way!

Anyone needing the dish back plate or the LNB arm & support arms let me know. I will look for the thread on the SAE bolts from Metric and post it! Anyone finds it faster post it! That is a requirement I feel on the 3ABN dish!

3ABN Bolt Replacement Thread:http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/102541-good-place-buy-dish.html

 

[TRG]

Dang, that sucks. :river

I wound up breaking almost all of the supplied hardware during the install of my 3ABN dish. It's not that metric bolts are bad. Metric or SAE bolts of cheep quality or "grade" are the same.

Well at least a piece of metal that can be replaced was damaged in this incident and it wasn't YOU that got blown off the roof. I guess I'm a glass half full guy.

 

[Sadoun]

FTABman0

That is one unlucky situation.

But, the positive outcome is that you got a priceless experience. Now you can setup any motorized dish out there.

 

[FTABman0]

FTABman0

That is one unlucky situation.

But, the positive outcome is that you got a priceless experience. Now you can setup any motorized dish out there.

I just hope you guys have a Brand New Fortec Star 90 CM when I get to your sale! I really wanted another Fortec anyway! The 80 CM has never let me down yet! Thanks Sadoun, You will see me soon!!

Kevin

 

[concord]

Sorry to hear about your problems. However, thanks for the information and experiences; I just received my dish and plan to check it out this weekend.

 

[FTABman0]

Dang, that sucks. :river

I wound up breaking almost all of the supplied hardware during the install of my 3ABN dish. It's not that metric bolts are bad. Metric or SAE bolts of cheep quality or "grade" are the same.

Well at least a piece of metal that can be replaced was damaged in this incident and it wasn't YOU that got blown off the roof. I guess I'm a glass half full guy.

You are right there! I made sure that the motor was tight before I got down during the storm blow through! Maybe if I kept them loose the motor just would have made its way to the bottom of the pole and the dish would have rested on the roof. We can give scenarios all night but it never turned out that way. Should have, could have, would have! Story of my life!

I am really glad it never damaged anything else! Or me off the roof. I know better though to get down in wind or storms though. I know us FTA guys would probably stay up there in the elements if we could if the truth is known about it!

The 80 CM is up and going now half sighted in, it is still raining here so enough for tonight. I got 93.0 West now listing to the MTI1 Radio channel. I just put it up by eyeball sight between the rain but got a great lock and 95 signal quality now on that bird!

 

[FTABman0]

Sorry to hear about your problems. However, thanks for the information and experiences; I just received my dish and plan to check it out this weekend.

Get the SAE bolts and as always, DO NOT over tighten! I suspect that the bolts that stripped out were my fault torquing them down a bit much. Check out the thread link I posted about the replacing the bolts! I think it only came to about three bucks at Lowes. I saw that thread and bought the bolts before the dish even came here. I was ready to assemble the minute it came!

You will need at least one bolt for the shoulder bolts for the azimuth post clamp, longer than factory so you can spread the clamp if needed. As posted by McGuyver



Also when you put yours together do a warp test on the reflector itself before putting it together. Saves a lot of time and aggravation if the dish is bent during shipping. I basically read and use the search engine here on the satellite guys and absorb all I can before I buy or try anything. I have had my share of questions also but the guys here are great and the advice is priceless! You will learn a lot and maybe share your knowledge as well when the new guys are stumped on a problem. This site is the best!

There is a link to a PDF file on dish warp during shipping and how to pop it back in place. Satellite AV posted it awhile back. I will look for it and put the link to it in an edit. Again if somebody knows the link to the thread or the link to the file by all means post it if I don’t find it right off.

Thanks for the post concord, get them there bolts before you start your assembly!

Is yours a 3ABN Azure Shine Dish? I forgot to ask.