directv, globestar, glorystar, and dishnetwork have been around for a while, do you thnik a new satellite company will ever start up?
do you think a new satellite company will ever start up?
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Tech, I've often wondered that too. The big guys seem to me to have things locked up with all the programming folks etc...I'm wondering if someone has the bucks to lure some of the Hbo's, Scripps channels,HGTV,DIY, etc away from them. I'd love to see something like a bunch of channels a la carte....reasonably priced. When we had the mini dish years ago we seemed to watch the same 5-6 channels while paying for what they said was hundreds of channels. Thanks! Blind
The current cable and satellite companies have no exclusivity agreements with the major program providers. I'm sure HBO, et al would be more than happy to sell their programming to anyone who can pay their asking price. The big barrier to entry is infrastructure. Satellites are not cheap, and neither are orbital slots. There are currently proposals from a few companies to start new DTH/DBS services in front of the FCC, but they are not guaranteed to get started because they need to get satellites up, funding, etc. and more than a few of them are controversial 'tweener' services that are currently opposed by both DirecTV and Dish Network. Some of them are applications for BSS space, but DirecTV and Dish both have applications there as well so who knows what will happen. I think in the end startup providers will find it nearly impossible to find financing, and the one that likely does make it through will probably go the way of Voom and will basically be a vehicle for a cheap asset grab by both DirecTV and Echostar/Dish.
Don't know about satellite. I mean I love it's potential to reach almost every home in North America, and do so economically. But the FTA component is missing here in the USA, and I think that is part of satellite's downfall. And online TV's advantage.
I note that CBS did very well selling its online advertising this year during the NCAA Tournament. That was all FTA -- but online. "Television distribution is migrating, television and Internet are merging." People have been saying that for years -- but there are signs that it may come true.
I would like ala carte programming, but sat providers can't do ala carte. That's what they've told Congress -- "we can't do that". But online providers are calling their bluff.
As for ad supported online viewing, here are two very different industry views:
Disney's CEO:
"Preventing people from watching any shows online, unless they subscribe
to some multi-channel service, could be viewed as both anti-consumer,
and anti-technology, and would be something we would find difficult to
embrace," Iger said in a speech.
Time-Warner's CEO
"We're not trying to take away what you have for free -- we're trying to give you on broadband what they have on television," he said during a cable television conference in Washington. He added that the industry "can't just blow up the revenue structure" that cable operators and programmers have come to rely upon by continuing to stream shows over the Web freely to people who don't subscribe to cable, satellite or telecom service."
How's that?
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Oh, wait, have you seen this, FREE mobile tv provided by OTA broadcasters:
Free Mobile Digital TV in North America gets one step closer
OTA is not dead yet. Maybe?
Hard to say where it's all headed, but what I regard as the anti-competitive nature of cable/pay sat may one day come to an end. I believe almost every household in the USA would have satellite right now if the sat companies had played their cards differently and offered a basic package of FTA channels to set the hook. Most households could then on a whim pony up for the premium channels they want, try out premium shows and events, in the way One Click Shopping makes me spend my money at Amazon. Simple.
Or not simple. If I started a new satellite company today I'd probably quickly run it into the ground. It's complicated to make a go of any business, let alone television. But the old excuses as to why we have to buy into packages we don't want are falling away like that famous curtain in the Wizard of Oz. Cable and sat providers have been puffing, but the Internet may yet blow their houses down. Or at least re-write the rules of television in North America.
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The curve involved in starting up a new service is probably too great for a service that might be competitive with CATV or DBS. Voom found that out the hard way. Their niche was HD content and that isn't niche anymore.
I think the Skyvision DSR410 system is the closest venture in recent years that comes to mind. It got off to a good start when it was Ku band and only required a small dish in late 2007 to about a year ago. Then it switched to C band. Still a good option for the satellite enthusiast. 
I keep hoping for another Voom to start up. The equipment is already out there and can be recycled like the 410s. The old Motorola Voom and Starchoice boxes would work fine with new firmware for a new reincarnation.
I keep hoping for another Voom to start up. The equipment is already out there and can be recycled like the 410s. The old Motorola Voom and Starchoice boxes would work fine with new firmware for a new reincarnation.
Why would anyone start a new service with old equipment? No one is going to provide funding for that kind of model. The shoestring skyvision hacked together method isn't going to work for a real, legitimate threat to DirecTV, Dish, or Comcast. The market only really has room for one or two satellite TV providers. With the phone companies getting involved the big markets will have 3-4 video providers. I think once the phone companies get really big in video you'll see another attempt (and possibly a successful one) to merge DirecTV and Dish again.
Voom DBS's biggest problem was they did it too soon. HD sat service, when HDTV's were still $4000 or more. I think they'd have an easier time nowadays.
The problem now is that HD isn't bleeding edge anymore. Everybody and their grandmother has access to it now.
It costs a lot to float a constellation of satellites just to do the same thing that most everyone else is already doing.
Well, Voom's claim to fame was their quality. (And some unique programming)
What DishNetwork, and I believe DirecTV deliver in the name of HD, is criminal.
So, Voom would certainly have a toe-hold today.
As for the premise of the entire thread, "never say never", but I don't know where the money would come from.
Especially in these financially troubled times.
You would think that a new Formula One racing team would not have a chance to start up now.
That is exactly what is happening.
So , maybe in an economic slump, good people and hardware are available at bargain prices to set such an idea in motion.
I think the Skyvision DSR410 system is the closest venture in recent years that comes to mind. It got off to a good start when it was Ku band and only required a small dish in late 2007 to about a year ago. Then it switched to C band. Still a good option for the satellite enthusiast.
I keep hoping for another Voom to start up. The equipment is already out there and can be recycled like the 410s. The old Motorola Voom and Starchoice boxes would work fine with new firmware for a new reincarnation.
New life for VOOM, a nice thought but, I cant see it happening. First, Motorola would have to sign on and they have shown their colors regarding home TVRO. I am in total awe that they even considerd the DSR410 venture. Somebody must have something really good on the exec that made that call. Hell, we cant even get them to consider a next gen production IRD for the 4D service, and it is a SSP structure that is already established and in place.
I have no use for or will ever participate in IPTV. I'm already irritated with the almost 'manditory' push to having to be online to do anything anymore. IPTV is that plus high speed mode. When a high speed connection is offered for free, then I will consider it free TV, otherwise AFAIC, it is just another overpriced pay TV service leaching off of an existing infrastructure.
An upstart SATELLITE programming provider is about as likely as a new oil company. The big boys have the resources all sewen up, and the equipment already in place and depreciated off the books. About the best we can hope for would be a re-seller type service, similar to all the psuedo land line phone and long distance companies. The phone companies were required to allow this, but no such rules apply to broadcast entities/SSPs, so they wont be giving up a piece of their pie to sell it for any amount low enough for a new biz to make a sustainable profit from. Beyond that, there's the HW and support issues to address. It would have to be a multi mode STB, and supporting all variants of DVB, IOW, FTA capable as well. ATSC would be a plus. If any premium/alacarte are to be offered (that's the point right?), a CAM system and a means of management would have to be in place, FW support/development, at the company level, not the mfgr level, and not to mention moving into the crosshairs of the pirates 'scopes.
If anything it will go the other way. Remember when there were commas between all the names when you listed Exxon-Moblie, Conoco-Phillips, Shell-Pennzoil and the like? There are laws against monopolies, and FTC rules in place to protect consumers against such market manipulation, but if you have deep enough pockets and a hoarde of ambulance chasers, you can find a way around anything. Case in point, can anyone say Michael Jackson?
I think FTA needs more programming available for America on the satellites. If there was enough free content available up there then there would be a lot more people buying the FTA boxes to receive that programming. Subscription packages could be made available to those wanting more than the free content. A new company could come into the scene making this available which could have its own market share against Dish / Direct. If that were to happen then Dish / Direct could do the same thing to prevent the new company from acquiring too many of their customers.
I am a complete outsider in any of this - very little understanding -- but satellite phone based TV was thought to be impossible until Desert Storm and the imbedded reporters. With the need of certain companies to diversify, I can sense something coming. It is starting out pricy, but mobile internet wideband is no longer waiting in the wings.
What will it mean to FTA???? what will it mean to the consumer? I understand it is already affecting (business) airline ticket sales.
What will it mean to FTA???? what will it mean to the consumer? I understand it is already affecting (business) airline ticket sales.
Loral Space (one of the big satellite maufacturers) say that they might see order cancellations if some new startups can't get funding in the current economic environment. Spectrum 5 would be a good example. They have started to get US licenses, have a planned fleet, but no ground stations and no satellites launched yet.
I'd make the case it's not a huge barrier to entry. There is nothing saying you have to build/launch/operate your own sats.
You can lease existing transponders on a mostly empty sat (say, most of Echo9) and use H264/DVB-S2 and get a bunch of SD/HD services on the same sat. The dish won't be mucy bigger than some of the current multi-sat DBS dishes like the DIRECTV 5 LNB one.
the big Q is if you can get good rates on contracts with the big programmer groups (universal, disney, hbo, showtime, starz, viacom, etc) and be able to cover that, plus your equipment cost, plus the leased capacity cost and turn a profit.
It's probably much easier to go the globecast/glorystar way where it's a niche and let the programmers pay to be there rather than be a DTH provider with a boatload of costs just to "keep the lights on".
I wonder if there is enough of a market to have a service available without the local network stations and without HD channels in which takes up a lot of space on the satellite. If a program provider had less money in each customer signing up for service if the customer was paying for all the equipment costs then maybe the combination of these things could lead to cheaper packages made available than what can currently be had on Dish / Direct.
Wouldn't it be great if someone decided to start a new DVB satellite service where they placed more emphasis on picture quality than channel quantity? As we've all seen on network feeds, digital satellite streams can look stunning. Just think how nice it would be to have a DBS service that looked as good as those feeds.
You have to find space to lease though. I'd be willing to bet that leasing DBS space from Echostar would be cost prohibitive--they aren't going to give anyone better terms than Dish, and Dish has millions of subscribers to pay for the satellite time, which is a fixed cost regardless of the number of subscribers. Any other satellite space you lease isn't going to be on a DBS bird which means a larger dish, new infrastructure, etc. The infrastructure is going to be the larger costs than the programming.
The problem is that the general public is more than happy with DirecTV or Dish or cable. Just because a few hundred or a few thousand nerds on a few internet message boards 'sperg out over picture quality, we're not even a drop in the bucket when compared to the millions of customers who prefer channel quantity over picture quality. And there's certainly not enough that would switch to a provider that would make it economically feasible for that provider to operate.
The space wouldn't be DBS space and Echostar Satellite Services would be leasing the space, not DISH Network, their sister company.
ESS has a lot of Ku-band capacity for lease since DISH decided to stick with DBS frequencies instead of a hybrid of DBS and Ku. Echo9 is wide open and AMC-15 is, too. I"m sure a good rate could be negotiated depending on how much capacity you are willing to use - if you can book 10 transponders, that is 10 less transponders ESS has to hope to rent out to make their payments to SES Americom for.
With 10 tr's and H264/S2, you can have about 80-100 great looking HD channels to offer.
Check the Dish forum here. Moments after Dish turns on new "HD" channels there are complaints about the channels that are still not "HD" yet. The more "HD" that is squeezed in the happier people seem to be. Even here on the forum with the nerds.
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