Dish vs. Comcast Early Impressions/Comparisons

[GaryPen]

As promised, my first impressions of Comcast HW, programming and service. I was a Dish sub from 12/98-5/05, with a year as Comcast sub in the middle, from 2/03-1/04. I recently moved, and decided to take advantage of the situation to check out the new Comcast services and HW, while also creating the necessary Dish hiatus, so that I may return to Dish through SBC with their upcoming 2Wire Media Portal. (I am also currently in charge of a 9 receiver Dish commercial account, where I work.)

I've had my Comcast Motorola DCT-6412 since Saturday. It is a pretty nice unit. At the time of Dish disconnect, I was using a 721 and 811. I will try to break down my impressions/comparisons by category.

Physical attributes:
Lower profile than my old 721. Smoother appearance. Flat front panel vs. the curvy front panel of the 721. Nicer looking than the two-tone, weird curvy front of the 811, as well.
Advantage: Comcast 6412. (Subjective opinion, of course.)

Program Guide:
The iGuide interface is clean and quick, lots of grid cells, program info shows in top left corner, video in top right corner, all very similar to the 721, and way superior to the clunky EPG on the 811. I also do not lose EPG info while watching local HD, as happens with the 811.
Advantage: Tie with the 721. Comcast 6412 over the 811.

Menu
The menu system is clear and concise. It also keeps a video window open in the upper right corner, which the 811 does not. It does not have as many options as the Dish receivers, which I miss. Plus, the unit must be powered down to access some HW settings, such as HD and CC settings, which is incredibly stupid.
Advantage: Dish 721, but the Comcast 6412 over the 811.

Add'l Features
The 6412 only has one favorites list. It is only accessible through the menu. (I have created a macro in my universal remote that takes me there, though.) But, Dish receivers have 4 favorites lists which are accessible by simply pushing the guide button multiple times.
Advantage: Dish

The 6412 does not have PIP, even though it is a dual tuner model. The swap function works easier than the 721, though.
Advantage: Tie.

Comcast's channel assignments are goofy. This is due to many basic channels being in the analog band, while higher tier channels on the digital band. It makes for a channel number nightmare. Dish's channel assignments are fairly logical.
Advantage: Dish
(However, Comcast has just begin their digital conversion to QAM256, similar to upgrading to MPEG4, wherein they create add'l bandwidth to simulcast all analog channels in the digital band. This will enable them to group channels together in a more logical fashion. As such, I'd say that Dish's advantage in this area should disappear shortly.)

DVR
I've only recorded a handful of shows so far. They all were successful. Easy to use recording interface. BUT, and it's a big but, the start early option is only in increments of 15 minutes!!! End Late is in normal 1 minute increments, though. OTOH, the 6412 can record HD. The DVR screen on the 6412 has both DVR recordings and scheduled DVR events (Timers in Dishspeak) options. You must then choose one to view. Also, once in the "scheduled DVR" screen, you must scroll day by day, instead of listing them all on one screen. A time-waster.
Also, 721 has double the hdd size.
DVR Interface advantage: Dish 721
DVR hdd size Advantage: Dish 721
HD DVR advantage:Comcast 6412 (No HD in 721. No DVR in 811. From all I've read of the 921, I'd say the 6412 probably has the advantage there too. I cannot compare it to the 942.)

HD
PQ in HD is excellent. Local HD includes all four major LOCAL nets, plus LOCAL PBS, plus one local independent in HD, plus local RSN in HD. National HD includes Discovery, ESPN, InHD, InHD2, and NFL HD. Premium HD includes HBO, MAX, Starz, and SHO in HD. No futzing with OTA which makes things easy. OTOH, I do lose my local WB and UPN HD programming.
Local HD advantage: Comcast
Sports HD advantage: Comcast
Premium HD Advantage: Comcast
National HD Advantage: Dish (Voom Originals and TNT-HD.)
Equipment Advantage: 6412 over 811 (See above regarding the 921 and 942.)

Programming
The Digital Plus package has everything in AT180, plus maybe a dozen or so more channels. Plus, Sundance (one of my favorites) is included, as opposed to Dish making it part of the SHO premium pack. Also, only a couple of shopping channels vs. Dish's 12. Nice touch there.
Advantage: Comcast

Price
Different cable systems, even within the same company, have different pricing. So, I can only compare my Comcast area to Dish.

Comcast
Digital Plus $59
HD & DVR fee $10
Analog channels for 2nd TV $0
Upfront equipment cost: $0

Dish
AT180 w/locals $53
HD Pack $10 ($15 w/Voom)
DVR Fee $5
Upfront equipment cost: $250

While the monthly cost is approx the same. Dish has a huge $250 equipment fee for a receiver that you do not even own! Plus, Comcast offers $25 off for 16 months, for a total of $400 savings. That's a huge $650 price advantage to Comcast. (So much for the cable pig.)
Advantage: Comcast

Service
I've only dealt with Comcast phone CSR's a couple of times, mostly for the order process, once for a problem that was simply user error. (Doh!) Each time, they were courteous and knowledgable, unlike the hit or miss CSR roulette with Dish.
Advantage: Too early to tell.

The Comcast installation tech was fast, polite, and surprisingly knowledgable regarding HD and home theater. OTOH, I asked him to hook up the BR outlet (the F connectors were missing.) He did a nice, neat, quick job up there, but didn't check the line for signal. It turns out the BR feed was not terminated in the utility closet. I had to crimp a couple of connectors, and add a couple of barrels myself.
Advantage: Comcast. (Even with the incomplete Comcast BR install, The Dish installer was so amazingly incompetent, that the Comcast guy would have had to have killed one of my cats to get a lower mark.)

Comcast will replace defective equipment for free. A tech can come to your home, or you can swap it out at a local Comcast office. Dish charges S&H fees and/or monthly $6 DHPP fee.
Advantage: Comcast

Comcast does not charge a fee to downgrade programming. Dish charges $5.
Advantage: Comcast

Summary
Personally, I'd probably be happy to stay with Comcast from this point on. You know, if the 2Wire MediaPortal turns out to be a bust, I will have no problem staying with them. But, I'm looking forward to MP's cool features and functionality. The Voom Originals will be nice too. Although, Comcast might be adding them by then, as well.

 

[normang]

When the promo savings are over and the cable costs go up faster than satellite. Then where will the advantage be? (I know, there isn't one)

HD looks good no matter where you get it, you have to try to screw up a good HD signal.

Your comparing all this to the 811, which most know wasn't a great Dish reciever, but it works, and gets the job done for the most part. It has good HD and for quite a while now SD is fine.

There maybe things about cable that perhaps have changed over time, but I don't see anything you've given to Comcast as an advantage as a significant enough advantage to go down that road.

 

[GaryPen]

Wow. You need to brush up on your reading skills. (It might help if you pull your nose out from between charlie's cheeks. It makes it easier to read that way.)

When the promo savings are over and the cable costs go up faster than satellite. Then where will the advantage be? (I know, there isn't one)

Wrong. The price without the promo is only $1 cheaper with Dish. With the promo, Comcast is $24 cheaper.

Your comparing all this to the 811, which most know wasn't a great Dish reciever, but it works, and gets the job done for the most part. It has good HD and for quite a while now SD is fine.

Wrong again. I was doing most of my comparing to the 721. Also, the 811 is a piece of crap, btw. It gets the job done the way a Yugo got you from point a to point b.

There maybe things about cable that perhaps have changed over time, but I don't see anything you've given to Comcast as an advantage as a significant enough advantage to go down that road.

True. The cable system in your area may not be as good as mine. and, Dish may hold a huge advantage over them for you. But, if you cannot see the clear advantages in my particular post about my particular Comcast area, then you have a serious inability to consider facts logically, rationally, and with emotional detachment.

 

[normang]

Gary, I don't know what it is about your apparent dislike for Charlie... Charlie to me has done nothing in my opinion to get discussed the way he does. I don't care for your lame insinuation that I give a hoot about Charlie... get a LIFE...

The 811 is fine for me, .. most people don't find a way to hate a piece of hardware as you do.. Again, get a life..

I have Comcast where I am, I don't see anything compelling in their offerings that would make me act anything like you do about these issues.. again... get a life.. its ONLY TV for crying out loud..

 

[jssat]

Thanks for the info gary, I've been considering Comcast my self.

 

[GaryPen]

Gary, I don't know what it is about your apparent dislike for Charlie... Charlie to me has done nothing in my opinion to get discussed the way he does. I don't care for your lame insinuation that I give a hoot about Charlie... get a LIFE...

It was a joke based upon your apparent emotional attachment to a utility company. I'm sure Charlie is a fine human being who is kind to children and animals. I have a life. A life that is free to choose whatever uiltiy companies I see fit.

The 811 is fine for me, .. most people don't find a way to hate a piece of hardware as you do.. Again, get a life..

Again. I have a life. But, unlike yours, it's a life I prefer to fill with things that work correctly.

I have Comcast where I am, I don't see anything compelling in their offerings that would make me act anything like you do about these issues.. again... get a life.. its ONLY TV for crying out loud..

As is commonly known, cable companies have different services, at different price points, in different parts of the country. Comcast may suck in your area. I am not arguing that. They used to suck, and swallow deeply, in mine. But, that is no longer the case. They are better than Dish in many many ways, here. It's as plain as the nose on your face. (regardless of whose cheeks it is between.)

I know it's only TV. And, because it is such a minor thing, it should work correctly every time I wish to use it. And, I should also get the most value for my TV dollar. Sorry if that isn't important to you.

And, for the last time, I have a life. A very interesting one that has been filled with amazing experiences, people, things, events. If you only knew.

 

[sprintcarcrazy]

Your comparison cable in your area vs Dish might be true. I don't think the 811 is too bad now, granted it was buggy when it came out.

I did the same comparison for a whole 6 hours with Mediacom digital cable vs Dish, and the cable box went back to them the next morning.

In my case, their guide was slow, 1-100 was fuzzy, the Motorola 6412 was buggy, slow changing channels, and locked up twice. Their HD was HD light being pushed in 720P. Very soft compared to Dish.

The price was right, with the promo, I would have saved about $50 a month.

If their HD would have been real HD, I would have seriously considered switching. No doubt their are some very compatable maybe even better cable systems out there.

 

[ayrton]

Dish to Comcast

I'm getting Comcast this Friday 5/27.

In addition to the above, I priced the 942 (HD DVR) and getting the Voom channels. The total hardware is close to $1,000. In the past I've bought 510s and an 811 and am getting tired of pumping money into hardware. Maybe you could call Dish the "Hardware Pig".

My friends that have Comcast have excellent SD/HD/Audio quality. Their hardware doesn't have to be reset in the middle of some important show. Their installation is also much better. (Not sloppy)

 

[normang]

It was a joke based upon your apparent emotional attachment to a utility company. I'm sure Charlie is a fine human being who is kind to children and animals. I have a life. A life that is free to choose whatever uiltiy companies I see fit.

Gary, your jokes are generally not funny.. they are rude & crude and that doesn't make any points with me. I don't mind if you disagree with what I say, its what debate-discussion is all about, but personal attacks, whether you elect to see them that way, just aren't needed.

Again. I have a life. But, unlike yours, it's a life I prefer to fill with things that work correctly.

Nothing is perfect. My 811 does "everything" I want it to. I get good reception for my HD Locals. It gives me a good PQ for all the satellite channels, I get good satellite HD, it maintains all the favorites I need, I can't even remember the last time I had to touch it to do anything. The only annoyance I see fit to complain about is downloading of the guide when moving from local to sat channels. Is there room for improvement, of course, should it have been better from the outset, sure. But it wasn't, its much better now and if they release a couple more solid firmware updates, it will be a pretty good reciever.

As is commonly known, cable companies have different services, at different price points, in different parts of the country. Comcast may suck in your area. I am not arguing that. They used to suck, and swallow deeply, in mine. But, that is no longer the case. They are better than Dish in many many ways, here. It's as plain as the nose on your face. (regardless of whose cheeks it is between.)

Once again, you just can't leave the asinine comments out of your replies, you don't even seem to know when your being insulting, and if your doing it on purpose to try and make a point, to me, it denigrates your point completely.

Yes, Comcast does things somewhat differently in every market its in, but your whole point as I see it, is that somehow cable is now better than Dish, because you don't like Dish anymore, you denigrate Charlie and his company in multiple posts if I recall, because you had a bad deal or lousy reciever or mediocre customer service, get over it.. You toss your cable comparisons in Dish Forums, did you toss it in D* Forums as well? Some of it should apply to them just as well.

I know it's only TV. And, because it is such a minor thing, it should work correctly every time I wish to use it. And, I should also get the most value for my TV dollar. Sorry if that isn't important to you.

No, I don't think you beleive its only TV, because if you did, your commentary here would have stopped as I see it the moment you were no longer a Dish subscriber. Sure if you had some useful input on someone's tech problem, cool. But to disparage Dish at most every turn for quite a while, seems to be all I read from you.. with rare exceptions.

And, for the last time, I have a life. A very interesting one that has been filled with amazing experiences, people, things, events. If you only knew.

Great, show the rest of us that you can stop ripping Dish, and watch your cable and have that great life...

have a good day..

 

[case-a-kill]

the only reason we havnt changed was because at the time Comcast (evil empire of bs) didnt have a dvr/tivo... and all you get are the pacific times, my family likes to watch things in eastern then pacific if we miss anything. my 2 cents

 

[goaliebob99]

This is my to cents.. if he would have compared it to the 942 Dish would of kicked comcasts asss by far!.... Sooo he will be watching his wimpy ass cable while i will be watching my voom and putting mp3's on my 942.. Personally Comcast is loosing alot of money to dish and I think they will do anything to keep coustomers.. even if that means lyeing.

 

[GaryPen]

Now again, in English this time.

 

[GaryPen]

Gary, your jokes are generally not funny..

I beg to differ. Sorry if I'm no Larry The cable Guy, Bob Hope, or whatever passes for humor in your household.

...its much better now and if they release a couple more solid firmware updates, it will be a pretty good reciever.

Good luck with that. I don't have the time to wait.

You toss your cable comparisons in Dish Forums, did you toss it in D* Forums as well? Some of it should apply to them just as well.

It might. But, as I have never been a D* sub, it wouldn't be a fair comparison based upon fact and personal experience. Did that simple logic also escape you?

No, I don't think you beleive its only TV, because if you did, your commentary here would have stopped as I see it the moment you were no longer a Dish subscriber. .

I am still responsible for my company's 9 receiver Dish account. Another point you completely missed from my original post.

Great, show the rest of us that you can stop ripping Dish, and watch your cable and have that great life...

If you interpreted my detailed and relatively objective comparison as "ripping Dish", then you have an unhealthy emotional attachment to one of your utility companies. I will try not to disparage your gas or electric company, as I can only imagine the reaction that would cause.

 

[jtravel]

Great review,

Comcast here in Tucson charges a $3 fee for any programming changes made to your account.
The programming costs are higher priced here as well.
I left them due to poor PQ and much higher cost than *E

When I make the switch to HD its very likely I will be going back to Comcast due to the High equipment cost *E charges for a HD DVR

 

[normang]

Gary, your rude and condescending still, I believe rational discussion is beyond you.. which makes any further discussion useless. have a good day...

 

[OoTLink]

<comcast commercial>
Even when the dog sneezed...

WE LOST THE PICTURE!
</comcast commercial>

I'd pay the extra $1 a month not to see their corny commercials. Now AT&T broadband, their commercials were FUNNY. Anyone remember the one where the satellite guy (no pun intended) ends up stuck on the roof, or the other where he walks around in the house and gets carried away? "It'll be like a sports bar! Sports in the kitchen, sports in the den, sports in the bedroom" while he's getting shoved out the door? hahahhaa.

I'll take a local-car-dealer-quality-with-mono-sound-and-the-room-with-the-funny-looking-dish-standing-near-the-weird-woman commercial over comcast's stuff any day of the week.

 

[GaryPen]

Mre Observations

Video On Demand
I don't know if Dish has begun true VOD yet. I know they were supposed to start doing it with the 625. However, I must say the Comcast OnDemand is outstanding. Most of the OD programming is FREE. (Music and concert videos, excercise, cooking, DIY, documentaries, free movies, shows from national networks like Food Network, PBS, HBO, etc.) That was a very pleasant surprise. I can't imagine that Dish will be able to cram that much stuff on the 625's hdd.
They are also shutting down the PPV channels and moving all PPV over to OD! That will free up significant bandwidth. (Along with the QAM256 conversion, there will be plenty of room for Voom21, Universal HD, and all SD moving to digital.) I doubt very much if Dish could give up their PPV channels, as very few subs have the 625, and they certainly couldn't give up that revenue stream.
Advantage: Comcast

Music
This one is difficult, as most people really like the Sirius music channels on Dish. Personally, I felt they were over-rated, and absolutely hated the DJ's. They might as well have had commercials. But, for Sirius-lovers, Dish is the clear winner.
OTOH, Comcast's MusicChoice, which also has videos available OnDemand (I can't emphasize enough how cool OnDemand is), is a clear winner over Dish's Muzak channels. I like the on-screen graphics vs. Dish's wandering text, as well.
Advantage: Dish for Sirius and sheer quantity. (But, many may prefer Comcast for the free OnDemand music videos, and fewer, but arguably better, music channels.)

EPG
My Comcast guide includes accurate information for all locals, including digital sub-channels. Local OTA DTV guide info is spotty at best with Dish. In some cases they make you subscribe to Dish locals just to get OTA EPG info! Outrageous, especially since they don't offer info for all channels.
Advantage: Comcast

I'll keep posting more, as I become aware of them.

 

[josem3]

Hi GaryPen,
You made a fair comparison between Comcast and Dish but on you HD receivers I will go to 921 HD receiver or even more 942(two tuners for 2Tv's with PIP plus caller ID). I don't blame you switched to Comcast over Dish with that atractive offer but I still preffer my Dish Hd Pack with VOOM Chs.
About Comcast on Demand, I have my 921 HD DVR with 180hrs to be able to record my favorite programs and not what they whant to put on that channel(on Demand). Of course, Dish is gonna have his Dish on Demand on his 625 receiver but it gonna work a little different like you select the programs or most programs you watch to view, better that you Comcast on Demand.
Yes, GaryPen, I have to spend some money on front with Dish like $250 but I refered my mom, sister, friends, neirborhoods and I got so far $300(at $60/ea) credited to my account. So call Comcast I ask how much money they will give you if you refer people to Comcast may be $5,10,20 or none like my experienced.
This subject is depend on what situation you are and what area you live.
I live in Apartment complex that allow satellite/cable but I know some apartments that cable is the only choice even you have the spot and the balcony because the apartment complex signed an agreatment with cable to keep out satellite. :shocked

 

[GaryPen]

Yes. Dish's referal bonus (DishClub) is certainly an advantage for Dish. I forgot to list that. $300 is huge savings. Well done! (OTOH, I wasn't willing to risk friendship's over $5 per month.)

Yes. Caller ID is a great feature that I miss with Comcast. Dish has an advantage with that.

You must know that Dish on Demand will in no way compare to Comcast's OnDemand. It simply cannot, until there is true two-way broadband communication with the sats. The receiver hdd can never be big enough.

FYI, it is ILLEGAL to prohibit satellite dishes in apt complexes, if the dish can be mounted in an area of the tenant's exlusive use, such as a balcony, yard, inside the apt by a window, etc. Those complexes are breaking Federal law.

 

[pacman]

...No futzing with OTA which makes things easy. OTOH, I do lose my local WB and UPN HD programming...

So Gary, are you saying that the Comcast box doesn't give you the option to connect your own antenna and view OTA HD?