Dish Network 4th Quarter Report early Preview

[Bruce]

Dish Network ended 2022 with some of the most downer data the U.S. pay TV business has ever seen, losing another 191,000 satellite TV customers and 77,000 virtual Sling TV subscribers in the final three months of the year.

Dish, which won't formally announce Q4 earnings until sometime next month, made the disclosure in an SEC filing Tuesday, in conjunction with the revelation of a $500 million secured debt offering.

Dish satellite's remaining base of just over 7.4 million subscribers is about a third of its peak 2009 size.

Dish is the fourth largest pay TV company in the U.S., based on subscriber reach. Its customer bleed rate approached No. 1 pay TV company Comcast in 2022 -- Comcast lost customers at a rate exceeding 10%.

Dish Satellite Now a Third of Its Peak 2009 Subscriber Size After Record 2022 Losses

Satellite TV operation lost another 191,000 customers in Q4, and Sling TV bled 77,000

www.nexttv.com

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I think we are going to see some major changes at Sling TV soon. Lets hope those changes help DISH as well.

 

[Bruce]

I think we are going to see some major changes at Sling TV soon. Lets hope those changes help DISH as well.

At least Sling is doing better then DirecTV Stream who only has about a million subscribers.

With DirecTV Stream lack of subscribers and DirecTV loss of 12 Million Satellite subs, shows Dish was correct in getting rid of the RSNs, since that is the only real difference in programming .
People just do not want them and prefer the lower prices.

More evidence are services like Hulu Live and YTTV, neither have them yet are growing in subs, Hulu is over 4 Million and YTTV is rumored to be over 6 Million ( over 5 million in July 2022).

Fubo TV has them, stuck at a million and charging extra for them( RSN fee like Cable/DirecTV charges also).

 

[SamCdbs]

Umm, actually it proves that SOME people don't want the RSNs, and some people do. Today's environment gives them a choice. RSNs remain the highest single rated channel in most core baseball markets every single night all baseball season.

That does not mean the current RSN model isn't broken. It is, and the fix will not be pleasant for those who are trying to show the world just how much money that they can save by doing without.

Making a decision and then declaring ones self to be the trend setter for everyone else is pretty sad.

 

[HipKat]

That's not optimistic news, especially for us as Techs. However, DTV losing the NFL Ticket cannot be good for them and could have a negative effect on both companies as more people may be apt to switch to streaming

 

[Bruce]

Umm, actually it proves that SOME people don't want the RSNs, and some people do. Today's environment gives them a choice. RSNs remain the highest single rated channel in most core baseball markets every single night all baseball season.

Actually it does show they do not matter, DirecTV has lost more then 12 Million, Comcast has lost about 6 Million, they both have them , Dish has lost about 6 Million, they do not have them, that shows that for those who have left any of those services, they just do not care about them in either way.

Yet YTTV no longer has them, still gaining subs, common theme , price is the reason and they do not care about the RSN.

DirecTV Stream has them, only a million subs, again price.

That does not mean the current RSN model isn't broken. It is, and the fix will not be pleasant for those who are trying to show the world just how much money that they can save by doing without.

Why would it not be pleasant, in a A la carte world, for example, the MLB package becomes too expensive, then I drop it

Making a decision and then declaring ones self to be the trend setter for everyone else is pretty sad.

More then 32 Million have left Live TV, of the 68 Million Households that still have it ( including OTT Live TV) about 20 Million do not get the RSNs, so out of 129 Million Households in the United States, only 48 Million Households get them, 81 Million do not, that is a major majority, not a Trend.

Almost 2/3 of households do not care about the RSN.

Amazing what math will show.

 

[rvvaquero]

That's not optimistic news, especially for us as Techs. However, DTV losing the NFL Ticket cannot be good for them and could have a negative effect on both companies as more people may be apt to switch to streaming

The DISH techs around here are staying plenty busy repairing junk Samsung appliances. Have you been offered that opportunity yet?

 

[SamCdbs]

Actually it does show they do not matter,

To you, and to most people. But to the minority that want them, they are very important. This is not contradictory. And it is a big part of the problem that RSNs are in.

Irrelevant repeating of subscriber statistics.

Again.

Yet YTTV no longer has them, still gaining subs, common theme , price is the reason and they do not care about the RSN.

Again, you repeat this "they don't matter" line. Of course they matter, to those who want them. Newsflash: Its a diverse country and different people are going to like different things than you do.

Why would it not be pleasant, in a A la carte world, for example, the MLB package becomes too expensive, then I drop it

What a shock. You show em.

.

Almost 2/3 of households do not care about the RSN.

Amazing what math will show.

That one-third care deeply about the RSN? Yes of course. And what channel, exactly, has more people that "care" about it than that?

The RSN model IS broken. No question. That does not mean that there are not MILLIONS of people who watch local baseball, and a good number that watch local hockey and basketball, every night.

Giving people a choice, where they had none before, means that some will opt out. That does not mean it is inevitable that everyone will make the same choice as you.

 

[FLEABttn]

I think we are going to see some major changes at Sling TV soon. Lets hope those changes help DISH as well.

Now you have my curiosity.

 

[rvvaquero]

Now you have my curiosity.

Exactly. That's what he do. Get you curious, you tune into the website more often, SatGuys is perpetuated. Scott be a genius.

Unlike some promoters, Scott actually comes through most of the time.

 

[Juan]

That's not optimistic news, especially for us as Techs. However, DTV losing the NFL Ticket cannot be good for them and could have a negative effect on both companies as more people may be apt to switch to streaming

If the NFL Sunday Ticket is alacart from google..why would sports fans( sunday ticket fans)..leave directv when the don't have to?..granted it won't be free or discounted anymore....but The NFL is still on every sunday on directv..YTTV is not a replacement for directv if you watch local professional sports...its very lame

 

[Bruce]

If the NFL Sunday Ticket is alacart from google..why would sports fans( sunday ticket fans)..leave directv when the don't have to?..

Because they are not forced to get DirecTV just to be able to sub to Sunday Ticket, considering the average monthly costs for DirecTV is $140, maybe they would want to switch to Dish at $100 a month, or if they want to get a bundle discount from Comcast/Charter and still get their RSN.

Maybe YTTV at $65, or they do not want Live TV at all, 59 Million Households in the United States do not have a Live TV Service, now that it is no longer tied to DirecTV, maybe some of them.

granted it won't be free or discounted anymore...

Even if you have to pay for it and a Live TV service, it is still cheaper then subbing to DirecTV by itself.

Average cost of a DirecTV sub by month is $140 a month, YTTV is $65 +$25 for ST, so $90 a month, Dish (120) is $98.99 ( with 3 boxes) +$25 a month ($300 divide by 12), so $123.99 a month.

.but The NFL is still on every sunday on directv..YTTV is not a replacement for directv if you watch local professional sports...its very lame

The only sports YTTV does not have is the local RSN, the NFL will still be on every Sunday and Monday ( in Season) just like DirecTV or even Dish, more mis-information from you.

Considering that almost 2/3 of the United States does not get a RSN ( see above post), it is just not that big of a deal.

 

[jerryez]

It seems to me that a majority of Sat Guys members are in that 1/3 minority that want RSNs. For me, I will not even subscribe to ESPN for the few sports programs that I want to watch, because of their high price. It ain't in the Welcome Pack. But, I do stream a lot, just not sports.

 

[Juan]

Because they are not forced to get DirecTV just to be able to sub to Sunday Ticket, considering the average monthly costs for DirecTV is $140, maybe they would want to switch to Dish at $100 a month, or if they want to get a bundle discount from Comcast/Charter and still get their RSN.

Maybe YTTV at $65, or they do not want Live TV at all, 59 Million Households in the United States do not have a Live TV Service, now that it is no longer tied to DirecTV, maybe some of them.

Even if you have to pay for it and a Live TV service, it is still cheaper then subbing to DirecTV by itself.

Average cost of a DirecTV sub by month is $140 a month, YTTV is $65 +$25 for ST, so $90 a month, Dish (120) is $98.99 ( with 3 boxes) +$25 a month ($300 divide by 12), so $123.99 a month.

The only sports YTTV does not have is the local RSN, the NFL will still be on every Sunday and Monday ( in Season) just like DirecTV or even Dish, more mis-information from you.

Considering that almost 2/3 of the United States does not get a RSN ( see above post), it is just not that big of a deal.

Most customers want directv for sports in general..not just sunday ticket..YTTV just doesn't appeal to sports fans..no RSNs..thats a huge deal for sportsfans

 

[Bruce]

It seems to me that a majority of Sat Guys members are in that 1/3 minority that want RSNs. For me, I will not even subscribe to ESPN for the few sports programs that I want to watch, because of their high price. It ain't in the Welcome Pack. But, I do stream a lot, just not sports.

Seems to me, the majority of Sat Guys members are Dish Network subscribers, which doesn’t have the RSNs.

Which I agree with, it should be a channel like HBO to where you choose to subscribe to it if you want it.

For example, I moved to Florida from Metro Detroit 2.5 years ago, so I do not care about the teams here, but I do want to watch the Tigers, so I subscribe to the online MLB single team, I do want to watch the Red Wings, so I subscribe to ESPN+ ( it has all the out of market NHL Games).

Why should I have to pay for a RSN I would never watch, just so it can keep the price down for everyone else ( per sub fees), forget that, you want it, you can pay for it, if it then becomes too expensive, that is not on me, I pay for the programming I want.

 

[Bruce]

Most customers want directv for sports in general..not just sunday ticket..YTTV just doesn't appeal to sports fans..no RSNs..thats a huge deal for sportsfans

Again, over 80 Million Households do not subscribe to a RSN and , as of now, only about 48 Million do, shows the majority do not care either.

And since you keep bringing up DirecTV here in the Dish forum, they have the RSNs, yet have lost over 12 Million subscribers and continue to lose about 500,000 per quarter.

Dish has lost 5.5 million, 3 Million of those before they got rid of the RSNs, only 2 million since then and only losing about 200,000 per quarter.

And if DirecTV was doing so well, then TPG should quit trying to sell to Dish to get rid off it.

 

[Juan]

Again, over 80 Million Households do not subscribe to a RSN and , as of now, only about 48 Million do, shows the majority do not care either.

And since you keep bringing up DirecTV here in the Dish forum, they have the RSNs, yet have lost over 12 Million subscribers and continue to lose about 500,000 per quarter.

Dish has lost 5.5 million, 3 Million of those before they got rid of the RSNs, only 2 million since then and only losing about 200,000 per quarter.

And if DirecTV was doing so well, then TPG should quit trying to sell to Dish to get rid off it.

I dunno you don't understand that directv caters to sports fans...and most sunday ticket subs got a discount...they didn't subscribe for just sunday ticket..it was just an extra premium service that was nice to have..its not mandatory to watch the NFL..hence I say directv wont cry much over sunday ticket..especially if they keep the gravy..commercial accounts

 

[Bruce]

I dunno you don't understand that directv caters to sports fans...

And they are losing more subscribers then everyone else and are continuing to lose more then everyone else.

Why are you bringing this up in a Dish Network forum, I am done responding to you here, bring up all this in the proper forum.

 

[Juan]

And they are losing more subscribers then everyone else and are continuing to lose more then everyone else.

Why are you bringing this up in a Dish Network forum, I am done responding to you here, bring up all this in the proper forum.

Not really..they had more customers to lose than dish...last time i checked directv had 14 million customers on ALL platforms

 

[Bruce]

Not really..they had more customers to lose than dish...last time i checked directv had 14 million customers on ALL platforms

DIRECTV's video subscriber base (combined DIRECTV, U-verse, DIRECTV Stream) is the third largest traditional multi-channel video programming distributor (MVPD) in the U.S. with approximately 13.3 million subscribers at the end of 3Q22

DirecTV had 22 Million subs before AT&T bought them.

Now, out of the 13 Million, at least 2 Million are U-verse subs, 1 million are Stream, leaves 10 million for Satellite, now if they lose their average 500,000 in the 4th quarter, they will be under 13 million total.

How that relates to Dish is why I am answering this here.

DirecTV 22 Million to 10 million, means a, roughly, 54-55% loss of subscribers.

Dish Network 14 million to 7.4 million, means a, roughly, 47% loss of subscribers

So, it does not matter that DirecTV had more subscribers, it still lost a higher percentage then Dish.

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/fitch-affirms-directv-entertainment-holdings-llc-at-bb-outlook-stable-05-12-2022