DirecTV HR20 & VIP622 Shootout from CNET

[mrhph]

Well, sort of. This is actually a review of HR20, but the reviewer did compare it to 622 quite often, and he likes 622 better but just by a nose.

There are some cool features that HR20 has that 622 doesn't, like native pass through, mass delete of recordings, 2 ATSC tuners (still disabled), create bookmark during playback, and more search criteria like HDTV, Dolby Digital etc (though the reviewer noted that the search result is inaccurate).

BUT, there are certain shortcomings in HR20 that literally made my jaws drop, and I'm not talking about the well-known issue of ATSC tuners not being enabled. Here is the list of those shotcomings that stuck out for me, in ascending order of "stinkiness":
1. No aspect ratio control.
2. Only 2 favorite lists as opposed to 622's four.
3. No PIP!
4. No true 30-sec skip! HR20 will actually fast forward "slowly" instead of jumping 30s, perhaps as a concession to advertisers. This is getting ridiculous. It also does not have a ff speed of 300x like 622.
5. Even if ATSC tuners are enabled in the future, the reviewer mentioned that HR20 will only be able to record two simultaneous programs, not 4 as one would have thought. Did the reviewer get this right? This is a bit inconceivable and absolutely ridiculous if true.

Maybe some or all of these will be addressed by future software updates, but if these shortcomings are accurate then HR20 is so not ready for primetime, even when compared to 622 at around the same stage.

Another interesting thing from the cnet review is that the reviewer compared HD programmings from HR20 and 622 (i.e., between D* and E*), and he cannot see any difference in picture quality between the two. Anyway, here's the link to the article:
http://reviews.cnet.com/DirecTV_HR20_DirecTV_Plus_HD_DVR/4505-6474_7-32065196.html

 

[slacker9876]

I have D* and had purchased the HR20 ... it is truly what sent me to E*. Well that and more HD today. I see a substantial difference in picture quality. For years I have been sayin y'all are liars in the forum, now I am one of ya. The MPEG4 is all the same but the HD and SD and better on dish.

I like my 622 much better then the HR20 ... BOTH really make me miss TiVo.

 

[jcrandall]

Well, I just switched to the HR20, and I have some observations that meet up those exactly.

1. It has similar aspect ratio control - crop, stretch, pillar box. The native res passthrough will be nice if the can speed it up - 3 to 4 second delay when changing resolution.

2. I hate the favorite list setup. Only 2 - 5 or 6 keystrokes to change lists - no where near as easy as hitting the guide button again.

3. I already miss PIP

4. I'm getting used to this. I think they will all end up this way - D* is partly owned by a media group - so it is not hard to figure out why.

5. The manual says 3, so I am still holding out for that. They conceivabally could do 4, the box has two OTA tuners and two SAT tuners, probally a processor limitation.

One thing - D* has enabled external storage as an unofficial feauture - meaning no support. It is secure to that receiver - but it diables the internal hard drive. Not additional storage, rather replacement storage. This should get better in the future with new software developments, but that is after OTA and stability first.

I haven't noticed much picture difference, maybe a little blockier on high motion stuff. I have a 27" HD LCD and a 42" ED Plasma, and my eyes aren't the greatest. I consider myself fortunate not to see HD lite like some others.

I still think I like the E* box better, but I was also more used to it. Either one is functional and quality for most users in my opinion.

 

[mrhph]

Well, I just switched to the HR20, and I have some observations that meet up those exactly.

1. It has similar aspect ratio control - crop, stretch, pillar box. The native res passthrough will be nice if the can speed it up - 3 to 4 second delay when changing resolution.

Well ok, after more careful reading, I found that the cnet reviewer was trying to change aspect ratio on stretched programming from TNTHD (which stands for That's NoT HD). I have tried this with 622 and it did not work for me either, so maybe the reviewer is mistaken when he said that "Dish can resize these images correctly".

As for native passthrough slowness, I had the same experience with Voom receiver.

 

[slacker9876]

I have never seen the glory in native passthru. With My HR10-250 I had all programs set @ 1080i and never went to any other. I do get why you would do that, and like it. Then again most movies I watch are DVD, but as long as they are HD, the aspects are usually OK (to me).

 

[BlackHitachi]

native pass through, 2 ATSC tuners
http://reviews.cnet.com/DirecTV_HR20_DirecTV_Plus_HD_DVR/4505-6474_7-32065196.html

This would make my 622's PERFECT!!

 

[bucks17]

I have never seen the glory in native passthru. With My HR10-250 I had all programs set @ 1080i and never went to any other. I do get why you would do that, and like it. Then again most movies I watch are DVD, but as long as they are HD, the aspects are usually OK (to me).

the reason I like native passthrough is to use the non-linear stretch from my tv rather than allowing the box to stretch 4:3 items.

 

[Poke]

Yeah cant really go on reviews due to most time its just a one time test.. The reality is that most folks I have talked to that gone from Direct to Dish. All have said the PQ is better and that the receivers are better. Overall Dish Rocks and is just better..

 

[John Kotches]

I have never seen the glory in native passthru. With My HR10-250 I had all programs set @ 1080i and never went to any other. I do get why you would do that, and like it. Then again most movies I watch are DVD, but as long as they are HD, the aspects are usually OK (to me).

Then you don't get native passthrough.

Native passthrough is about having a better scaler elsewhere in the system. As an example, I have a front projector with a Gennum processor which is quite a bit better than the processing in the 622 / 211 (I've used both).

For argument's sake, let's say that I'm watching Lost on ABC, which is a 720p60 broadcast, and I'm outputting at 1080i60. Well right off the bat I've just cut my frame rate in half, then because of the way the system works on Dish, it has to do some really ugly scaling to get to 60 1920x540 frames (which is what 1080i60 really is). Unfortunately, in the cheap stuff used in the Dish receivers it isn't done right.

If I take the time to change over to 720p on the receiver, I get 720p60 to my projector, which scales the 720p images to 1080p which looks dramatically better. Much sharper with literally zero artifacting.

Now, after Lost is CSI:NY, if I leave it on 720p, I get horrible jaggies because the deinterlacing is done with "bob" and then scaled down to 720p. Bob takes each field and doubles it, then scales that down to 720p. Unfortunately this is not the right way of doing things. It's the completely wrong way to do things. If I switch back to 1080i, my projectors Gennum processor is capable of properly running the inverse telecine process (CSI:NY is shot on film) to capture the original frames and displaying that at 60Hz. That's much better, though not perfect. There's still some slight judder on slow pan shots and going to a multiple of 24Hz could resolve that. This will come in a future software update.

That's the glory of native passthrough. I'm sorry you don't get it.

It has nothing to do with aspect ratios though, and if you think it does, you're terribly misguided at a minimum.

Cheers,

 

[Dishlover]

Yes, it would be nice if everything was broadcast at 1080i.

 

[Brewer4]

For me single tuner OTA on 622 is killer. With no E* HD over sat for my market it makes the HR20 more desirable since HD over sat is available with D*. When the OTA is turned on its D*'s main advantage in my house.

I am not a dual live buffer guy but I sure wish they put PIP in the HR20.

 

[Jimbo]

Yes, it would be nice if everything was broadcast at 1080i.

Hell No....
I don't want to have to watch sports in 1080i at all....

Jimbo

 

[Dishlover]

And why is that? They both put a 1 mega pixel image on the screen every 1/60 of a second. 1080i puts a 2 mega pixel picture on the screen every 1/30 of a second and the difference is obvious on my TV. Then again, maybe you don't have a 1080 set and get a worse picture with 1080i.