DirecTv and TiVo

[PVR4Me]

I have DirecTv at my house in Florida and my parents have it at their house in metro Chicago. Both of us have HR10-250s (2 each) and HD sets. I keep getting phone calls from DirecTv telling me that I am going to have to replace my HR10 if I want to keep DirecTv. At my house in Florida, I do not have a choice right now (although I have called BrightHouse to see if they will be bringing service to my area any time soon).

I have been very frustrated with DirecTv for allowing their TiVo products to stagnate. Now that DirecTv is no longer owned by New Corp, is there any chance they will fix this?

Quite a few of my friends have switched to HD TiVo boxes and either cable or FiOS. I got my Parents an HD TiVo box and am letting them try that instead of DirecTv. They had RCN for internet (20Mb/s down, 2 Mb/s up) and when I called I discovered that they would save $10 a month by adding a cable card and cable service.

My first impressions are very favorable (I am visiting them for the next week). The signal appears much less compressed than my DirecTv, but more importantly I really love some of the TiVo features, like swivel search. I am going to give them two more weeks to decide if they care enough about getting the west coast feeds (grandfathered) for recording Cold Case Files[\i] during football season, or if they will just drop DirecTv altogether.

Right now, I am keeping my HR10-250. As long as I can still get HBOHD, SHOHD and Universal HD, I will keep DirecTv. If they turn off my TiVo, I will turn them off and just get some HD TiVo boxes as 90% of what I watch is OTA HD. With my Blu-ray player and OTA HD TiVo, I think I could survive.

This leads to two questions:

1) Is DirecTv really turing off their MPEG-2 TiVo receivers?
2) Has anyone heard anything about a new DirecTv TiVo box?

- Alan

 

[meStevo]

1. Doubt they'll turn them off, but all HD will eventually be MPEG4.
2. No.

 

[silversurfer]

PVR4Me.....I was in a similar situation as you with the HR10-250 and was very reluctant to give up my Tivo but I figured I had to do it sooner or later so I got the upgrade to the HR21. I have had it for about 5 months now and in my opinion it is just as good as or better than a TIVO. If you give it a chance I think you would be pleasantly surprised. The TIVO relationship with D* and TIVO is over and there will not be anymore D*Tivos produced.

 

[Zynergi]

The following info is totally rumored with out anything to back it up, just personal experience in the field.

The following info is totally rumored with out anything to back it up, just personal experience in the field.

DirecTV no longer supports Tivo based products, and Tivo is being extremely slow to respond to Tivo based issues namely on standard DirecTV Tivo Boxes. This as a tech is very frustrating because of Tivo's latest software release 6.3 on non-hd boxes causing many issues that Tivo refuses to correct.

It is also not that DirecTV is shutting off Tivo service (nor Dish Network) with Tivo's continued lack of support, Tivo is severing ties with DBS services. Tivo is a product by a separate company and not a service such as DVR or PVR.

/End

As far as your issue if you fight hard enough you can keep your grandfathered services, but from the way you write, you really could care less which service you go with. But yea, eventually Mpeg2 will be gone, Mpeg2 is not a Tivo tool, but rather an older industry standard. Mpeg4 allows for more bandwidth an more channels and options per transponder and arguably better service.

 

[PVR4Me]

PVR4Me.....I was in a similar situation as you with the HR10-250 and was very reluctant to give up my Tivo but I figured I had to do it sooner or later so I got the upgrade to the HR21.

The friends I know that were forced to move to the HR21 don't feel the same way as you do. They just got rid of DirecTv and moved to Comcast in Sunnyvale rather than stick with it.

I have had it for about 5 months now and in my opinion it is just as good as or better than a TIVO.

Have you played with a Series 3 box? From the short period I have had a TiVo HD here at my parents, I am dying to get cable at my place (or hope that DirecTv changes its mind). It is so much nicer than my HR10 and orders of magnitude better than the hr21.

If you give it a chance I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

I have played with an HR21 (most recently at my friends' place in Sunnyvale, just before they switched). I certainly shared their feeling that it paled in comparison to a real TiVo. After two months on the HR21, they left DirecTv having been customers since soon after DirecTv launched (they were Platinum customers for much of that time).

The TIVO relationship with D* and TIVO is over and there will not be anymore D*Tivos produced.

While I accept that this is certainly a possibility, I hope it is not the case. At least for the moment, I do not have a choice at home in Florida. I will stick with my HR10, until either DirecTv offers a new DirecTiVo box, or I can get cable at home.

- Alan

 

[PVR4Me]

DirecTV no longer supports Tivo based products, and Tivo is being extremely slow to respond to Tivo based issues namely on standard DirecTV Tivo Boxes. This as a tech is very frustrating because of Tivo's latest software release 6.3 on non-hd boxes causing many issues that Tivo refuses to correct.

Since DirecTv took over their boxes (with the first Series 2 DirecTiVo boxes), and began collecting the revenue they have to pay TiVo for support. They have chosen to invest the minimum, as part of their plan to force people to move to their DVRs. TiVo cannot even release a new software version for their boxes without permission from DirecTv.

It is also not that DirecTV is shutting off Tivo service (nor Dish Network) with Tivo's continued lack of support, Tivo is severing ties with DBS services.

Actually, it is that DirecTv is shutting off TiVo. DirecTv used to allow many companies to produce boxes for their service. The Series 1 DirecTiVo boxes (and even the first Series 2 boxes were built during that period). The Series 1 DirecTiVo receivers where completely TiVo branded. Customers paid TiVo for service. When DirecTv dumped UltimateTv, they also took over control of the DirecTiVo boxes and began paying TiVo a fee per user and collecting the revenue from customers (that was when DVR service became free with Platinum service). With the HR10-250 and the R10, they decided to adopt Echostar's model of being the only box provider for their service. Unlike the FCCs rules requiring cable companies to support Cable Card, the Satellite providers have been allowed to lock out other equipment manufacturers.

DirecTv would not allow TiVo to support Music and Photos, HME, Multi Room Viewing, or any of the other Series 2 features. They did this, as far as I can tell, to purposely cripple the TiVo product so it would not grossly exceed the capabilities of their new boxes.

Go play with a Series 3 box and see what the current state of the art is for DVR.

- Alan

 

[JAG72]

DirecTv would not allow TiVo to support Music and Photos, HME, Multi Room Viewing, or any of the other Series 2 features. They did this, as far as I can tell, to purposely cripple the TiVo product so it would not grossly exceed the capabilities of their new boxes.

Where is the proof on this? Are you sure it was not Tivo as they wanted people to purchase their equipment and pay the higher service fee?

Tivo is a nice product but it is just not feasible for many people. I currently have 2 DVR's and soon will be upgrading to 5 or 6 DVR's within my house. I would rather pay Directv the one DVR fee then pay Tivo $12.95 for each of the systems. That would be $64.75 per month just for the DVR service for the 5 TV's. I know that you can buy the subscription for $299 for a lifetime subscription but what happens when the box breaks and you have to replace it? Your subscription is lost at that point correct.

 

[PVR4Me]

Where is the proof on this?

Well when it happened, DirecTv and TiVo staff at CES said it was DirecTv's decision.

Are you sure it was not Tivo as they wanted people to purchase their equipment and pay the higher service fee?

Yes, I am sure. Had TiVo been able to offer these features on the DirecTiVo receivers, they would have had a single code base to maintain which would have greatly decreased their development and support costs. Supporting broadband connections would have also decreased their direct costs as it would have taken their dialup calls (for which they pay) and replaced them with network connection with almost no cost to them.

TiVo's deal with Comcast pays them a similar amount per box (and like their deal with DirecTv absorbs their largest customer cost - telephone support). If they wanted to force people to migrate, they could simply not have renewed the DirecTv deal at all.

I currently have 2 DVR's and soon will be upgrading to 5 or 6 DVR's within my house.

In addition to my HR10-250s I have several Phillips SD DirecTiVos receivers.

I would rather pay Directv the one DVR fee then pay Tivo $12.95 for each of the systems.

First, I would also rather have DirecTv include my DVR fee with my service as they have done, but I want them to give me TiVo service. Second, TiVo has multi-box and multi-year prices that substantially drop their service costs (although it is still more than the $0 I paid for it with Premier service).

That would be $64.75 per month just for the DVR service for the 5 TV's.

No, it would be around $40 a month with a one year commitment, less for 2 years, etc.[/] While for some, any price would be too high, what I do not understand is why DirecTv has chosen to eliminate this choice altogether. Cable has moved to a model where people can choose to own their hardware and therefore pick whichever DVR they wish. Comcast and Cox have even started to offer TiVo service on their own DVRs as an option.

DirecTv has moved in the opposite direction, restricting me to only one provider and them owning the hardware.

Does not make any sense to me.

- Alan


I know that you can buy the subscription for $299 for a lifetime subscription but what happens when the box breaks and you have to replace it? Your subscription is lost at that point correct.[/QUOTE]

 

[scottie_h]

they left DirecTv having been customers since soon after DirecTv launched (they were Platinum customers for much of that time).

They were paying $7500/yr for DirecTV?

I guess it all depends what's important to you. I had a stand-alone Tivo for a couple years with Comcast, then that same Tivo unit with Voom. I went to D* when Voom went dark, and had Tivo for about 2 years. I was alway a huge fan of Tivo to say the least. But I have 3 HDTV to watch HD, not to use Tivo. The D* DVR has grown on me greatly - some things better than Tivo, other things worse. The critical difference is the number of HD channels we get vs. Tivo. If you're happy watching 5-10 channels on your HR10-250, more power to you. Meanwhile, we'll keep watching all of our HD channels. (and that's not meant to be a snide comment - it's just a fact)

I have 1 HR20 and 2 HR21s - I've yet to have any problems. Meanwhile, I kept my HR10-250 unplugged from the phone line for months to prevent buggy software upgrades - so the Tivo was far from perfect. I do miss the Tivo GUI a bit and more importantly the DLB, but the HD content is must more important to me. And the WAF wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it might be since she now gets a bunch of new HD channels by giving up Tivo.

 

[Bob Nielsen]

$7500 is for Titanium. There was a Platinum package in the past but it was a lot less than that.

 

[iwc5893]

$7500 is for Titanium. There was a Platinum package in the past but it was a lot less than that.

And isn't that a lifetime payment instead of per year?

 

[goaliebob99]

And isn't that a lifetime payment instead of per year?

No, it was a yearly fee as it included every PPV channel and event. Basically the Titanum package is every channel D* has, you get.

 

[Zynergi]

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One of their Sites DirecTV – Titanium

 

[scottie_h]

$7500 is for Titanium. There was a Platinum package in the past but it was a lot less than that.

Oops - my mistake! I thought he must have very rich friends.

 

[PVR4Me]

Oops - my mistake! I thought he must have very rich friends.

I have several friends who could afford it, but none who have it. I cannot imagine that it would be worth it. It was Premier, not Platinum (oops ).

 

[shibby191]

Go play with a Series 3 box and see what the current state of the art is for DVR.

- Alan

I see this posted from time to time at which I have to say...who cares (other then the Tivo diehards).

The HR21 records my shows and I watch them. What more do I need?

If Tivo is more important then content then by all means go where you can get Tivo. But most people find content and price the most important thing. They could care less what the DVR is, just so long as they have one. And 99% of the population has never used a Tivo and thinks all DVRs are "Tivo".

 

[scottie_h]

The HR21 records my shows and I watch them. What more do I need?

If Tivo is more important then content then by all means go where you can get Tivo. But most people find content and price the most important thing. They could care less what the DVR is, just so long as they have one. And 99% of the population has never used a Tivo and thinks all DVRs are "Tivo".

I agree whole-heartedly. If you refuse to use anything but Tivo, then go elsewhere to keep using Tivo while getting considerably less HD. If you want the quantity of HD, make the switch and learn the new DVR. They both record HD content for later playback - that's what I'm looking for.

I was a Tivo fan after several years of use, but the only thing I was dreading losing was the dual live buffers. I do indeed miss the DLB, but I just had to change my habits - I can't pause one show and go channels surf like I used to. It's not that big of a deal - well work losing that feature for the added HD content. And the menus are actually quite a bit faster with D* than Tivo.

If all things were equal, I would probably lean slightly towards Tivo - although it's pretty close. The D* receivers do some thing that I like better than the Tivo boxes too. It is also faster in most cases. I do prefer the guide layout on the Tivo and as I mentioned miss DLB. But since all things are not equal, I choose HD.

Good point about everyone calling their DVR "Tivo" - it's kind of become the generic term even though it's a brand, like "Kleenex", etc.

 

[Phoenix1]

I was a Tivo fan after several years of use, but the only thing I was dreading losing was the dual live buffers. I do indeed miss the DLB, but I just had to change my habits - I can't pause one show and go channels surf like I used to. It's not that big of a deal - well worth losing that feature for the added HD content. And the menus are actually quite a bit faster with D* than Tivo.

Same here. The other big thing I miss is being able to search for shows to record on only the channels I get, or only the channels in my favorite channels list. I used to be able to do a quick search of upcoming movies and set the TiVo to record them. With the HR20, I have to weed through 10,000 movies on 1,000 channels that I don't get. I'm sure that the HR20/21 could probably do this with a software upgrade.

 

[Ramy]

I am semi-Happy with the Directv HD DVR. I wish there were a couple of things from the Tivo but other than that it works great.

 

[PVR4Me]

I see this posted from time to time at which I have to say...who cares (other then the Tivo diehards).

People who want useful features.

The HR21 records my shows and I watch them. What more do I need?

How about Amazon Unbox with its ability to give one truly on-demand content, or Rhapsody for Music.

If Tivo is more important then content then by all means go where you can get Tivo.

TiVo service is not more important than content, but it is the ability to discover content, not just record things about which you already knew that makes a DVR useful. TiVo suggestions and Swivel Search both function to find new content to watch.

In addition, Amazon Unbox also provides a great deal of (commercial free) content.

But most people find content and price the most important thing.

Most people do not read these forums, do not have HD and do not have any DVR. For them moving from no DVR to any DVR is an improvement. That does not mean that they would not prefer a better DVR experience, nor that we should be satisfied with DirecTv simply because they have given us something. I switched to DirecTv from Echostar because of TiVo. My parents are about to switch to RCN from DirecTv because of TiVo. If DirecTv does not fix things and if Brighthouse provides service to my house soon, I will also switch. DirecTv has dropped its quality through too much compression and its move from multiple equipment providers to single sourcing everything.

I hope they improve, but if they do not, they will lose my business (and that of many others).

- Alan