Developed a small problem with my DVB setup.

[linuxman]

I just wanted a little confirmation on my findings with a small problem I have encountered.

I am now a registered user of MyTheatre and for those of you following along, I have detected a slight problem using a 3x4 multi-switch with my Twinhan 1020a.

On my 4th port of diseqc-1 which connects to the 22Khz off side of my Ecoda switch, I have my 1M Primestar dish pointed at Hispasat with the two output LNBF and a 3x4 multi-switch there to switch between H and V.

I have noticed a little lag time for the channels to come on for that particular satellite, and the V channels didn't want to seem to come on at all.

Today I had a little more time to sit and watch and the H channels come on much faster and switching to the V channels takes much longer, but all of a sudden both sides would just drop out. I went up to the roof to check things out, and while there took out about 20 feet of slack in the cable figuring if it was a voltage problem and taking it out couldn't hurt.

It did help, but the problem is still there.

That is the only dish in my current 8 LNB setup that requires a 3x4 multiswitch. Everything else is voltage controlled in the LNBF. And everything else is working fine.

My question is, Do you think the multi-switch is eating up all available power and causing the LNBF to lose signal?

FYI, I have changed out diseqc switches and there is no difference.

That is my suspicion because the H channels 18V work better than the V channels 13V.

Let me know what you think!

 

[Anole]

shootin' from the hip

I don't suppose you have a way to hang a volt meter on it, on the roof, while still connected to the LNB...??

Don't you have some powered 4x4 switches that're looking for a home?
Or some other switch you could try?

edit: oh, wait.
How 'bout hooking something else with 18 volts to one of the outputs of your 3x4 to power it?

 

[photoman76]

That is my suspicion because the H channels 18V work better than the V channels 13V.

If there was a low voltage problem, it seems to me that the V channels 13V should work better than the H channels 18V. The first thing I would try is temporarily remove the Ecoda switch and see if the Horizontal and Vertical channels work. If they do, then the Ecoda switch is bad. If not, then the 3x4 multi-switch may be bad.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Anole!

I don't suppose you have a way to hang a volt meter on it, on the roof, while still connected to the LNB...??

Don't you have some powered 4x4 switches that're looking for a home?
Or some other switch you could try?

edit: oh, wait.
How 'bout hooking something else with 18 volts to one of the outputs of your 3x4 to power it?

I do have some other 3x4 switches, nothing powered though. I could hook up another receiver to one of the other outputs, but the warmer mid-40's we had earlier has started to rain, and the temp is falling, so further work on the roof today is not feasible.

And thanks to you Photoman!

If there was a low voltage problem, it seems to me that the V channels 13V should work better than the H channels 18V. The first thing I would try is temporarily remove the Ecoda switch and see if the Horizontal and Vertical channels work. If they do, then the Ecoda switch is bad. If not, then the 3x4 multi-switch may be bad.

I'll try taking the Ecoda out of the picture for the test, but as I said above, going back on the roof today to replace the 3x4 switch isn't very likely.

I agree, the 3x4 is probably the culprit. The Ecoda is working fine on all other 7 LNBFs, but who knows.

 

[Anole]

Do you still use two ladders to get to the roof?
We need pictures. -

By now, I was sure you'd put in either...
1). an outside stairway
2). an outdoor elevator
3). an indoor stair, opening in the middle of the roof.

 

[linuxman]

Do you still use two ladders to get to the roof?
We need pictures. -

By now, I was sure you'd put in either...
1). an outside stairway
2). an outdoor elevator
3). an indoor stair, opening in the middle of the roof.

Still using ladders.

Helps me to lose weight, and keep up my strength.

I am investigating a set of stairs on the alley side of the building. Maybe this summer.

 

[linuxman]

The rain stopped for a while and allowed me to go up and put a brand new 3x4 multi-switch in place. That did allow for faster switching, but the signal still went out and stayed out.

Followed Photomans's advice, and took the Ecoda out of the equation. Still lights up very slowly, but does allow for faster switching of channels H to V and back. Still loses connection, but is able to recover to a point. Eventually the signal still drops out and doesn't come back.

I think the reason for a little better performance without the Ecoda is one less connection to go through and a little higher signal quality.

I think the LNBF is going bad, and after it warms up a little, takes about 5 minutes, it gets flaky.

I think I have a voltage switching Primestar LNBF here somewhere, I can just bolt up to the existing feed-horn. Won't be for a couple or three days now. Rain then snow followed by too cold to go up.

Edit: All other LNBs work fine on both sides of the Ecoda switch.

 

[Larry1]

As Anole suggests, try running a 18v power supply into one output (unused output) of your multiswitch. You can run a spare piece of coax into the house and use one of your other receivers (make sure to set it to a 18V polarity channel i.e. Horizontal channel) or a power adapter (a lot of notebooks use 19v adapters and they work fine... ymmv). There seems to be a lot running off of that Twinhan. The PCI card slot of your computer can only supply so much power.
Have you tried using your Pansat or Coolsat in place of the DVB card to see if it reacts the same or not?

 

[linuxman]

I managed to get on the roof in between rain and got a different split output LNBF on it, and it seemed to help quite a bit. Kind of hard to tell with the rain coming and going.

At this point, I don't think it is a power issue. I think it is a connection issue.

To get to this dish, it leaves the PCI card, goes through an Ecoda switch 3 feet away, goes through a diseqc switch 2 foot from that, then travels up to the roof, through a junction block, from there to the junction block on the dish, (total of 60-75 feet), from there through the 3x4 switch, and on to the LNB.

I just think it is a matter of signal having to traverse too many obstacles. None of the other LNBFs have multi-switches and none of them are having any problems. I guess at the end of the week, I'll take one of these Hughes voltage regulated LNBFs up there and eliminate the 3x4 switch and see what that does for me.

That's what happens when you re-arrange dishes a half dozen times.

 

[linuxman]

I feel like I have adopted Iceberg's practices.

Bundled up and crawled up to the roof this morning early while it was still 32F with 20 mph wind gusting to 45, but not raining or snowing at the moment.

Replaced the split output LNB with a used Hughes voltage controlled LNB. Was up there about 20 minutes and about froze my fingers off.

Came inside and fired up the computer and MyTheatre.

Signal lit up much faster, and channel switching was much faster, but lost signal about 5 minutes later on both polarities, came back, and lost again.

I haven't been able to regain signal since then, but there is a very light snow falling since my first attempt.

I am beginning to think I need to go to a new, more modern LNB/F to work with this setup.

I have a couple of new Sky Mexico Universal LNBFs here, and they work very well using the 22Khz on side of the Ecoda, but I don't think they will work with Hispasat without the 22Khz turned on. In other words, I can't use them on the 22Khz off side even setting the LO properly.

So I guess I will do some shopping today for some inexpensive modern LNBFs that I can make fit into the holder.

 

[linuxman]

Okay, Just figured out the plan.

I have one linear LNBF that's currently installed on the 22Khz on side of the Ecoda swith.

I am going to switch the cables, and put that one on the 4th port of the 22khz off side where the Hispasat LNBf is now.

Then install the Sky Mexico Universal on the Hispasat dish, and run it off the port the linear was using with 22khz on.

Problem solved, and a new more modern LNBf will be on the Hispasat dish.

I'd do it today if it wasn't so stinking cold, but will have to wait until at least Thursday afternoon.

 

[Anole]

Not sure I understand your convoluted solution, probably due to you redesigning the whole network so many times...
... but I was going to suggest you try this Standard, two-output Orasat LNB we discussed the other day.
It's only $20 shipped, and we could use the review.
See thread for other details.

Or, maybe the SatAV Standard Mini. Not as cheap as the Universal, but...

edit: I re-read your description, and even though you left out the word "standard" I finally got it.
What kind is that LNB, anyway?
Now, all we have to do is wait for the rain/snow/hail/hell to stop, eh?
Oh, and maybe get you a surplus NASA space suit...

 

[linuxman]

edit: I re-read your description, and even though you left out the word "standard" I finally got it.

A Linear LNB is a Standard LNB and vice-versa.

What kind is that LNB, anyway?

It is an OEM Primestar Voltage Controlled LNB made by NJR and very hard to find. It is different than the Hughes, (at least I think it is) and IMHO works better.

I don't have any problem spending the money for a new one. I just hate waiting on the shipping and paying E-Bay shipping costs. Sometimes they really stick you.

I would rather wait until someone has a sale, and buy 5 - 10 at one whack and pay shipping for the bundle rather than one item.

Besides, I need to get another one of these Universals in play.

 

[linuxman]

Got on the roof again today, and switched out the Hughes LNBf and substituted it with one of my Sky Mexico Universal LNBFs. I was amazed that it fit right into the holder with the casing on. Must be a 40mm holder.

Changed the wiring so that Hispasat and the Universal are now run on port 2 of the 22Khz on side of the Ecoda switch.

Changed the OEM voltage controlled LNBF pointed at G10 to port 4 on the 22Khz off side of the Ecoda and fired everything up.

The problem on Hispasat is now history and got just as good SQ with the Universal as I did with the Hughes.

But there is still the problem on G10 now.

If there was a low voltage problem, it seems to me that the V channels 13V should work better than the H channels 18V. The first thing I would try is temporarily remove the Ecoda switch and see if the Horizontal and Vertical channels work. If they do, then the Ecoda switch is bad. If not, then the 3x4 multi-switch may be bad.

You were correct Photoman. As long as I leave it on a V channel, everything is ok. Switch to a H channel, and the signal is gone in just a few minutes.

I have a new modern LNBF on it's way from SatAV to replace the OEM Primestar LNBF.

And Anole, as I was looking for an LNBF today, I stand corrected. A linear LNBF can be either standard or universal as opposed to circular.

So the problem is voltage related, but only for the older LNBFs. I have a new Ecoda switch on it's way too, just in case.

 

[linuxman]

I received a new bullet LNBF from SatAV, and finally got it in place on G10, and now all my problems are solved.

It was not the Ecoda switch, so now I have a spare. Always a good thing.

So if you are going to use lots of LNBfs with this Twinhan 1020a, it is a good idea to make sure they are modern low voltage requirement LNBFs.

I do have a question about the Twinhan 1020a. There are two RF connectors on the back of this card.

Can you slave an STB using the extra RF connector if you turn off the LNB power in the STB?

 

[Anole]

Thanks for the info on the new bullet LNBF from SatAV.

I do have a question about the Twinhan 1020a. There are two RF connectors on the back of this card.

Can you slave an STB using the extra RF connector if you turn off the LNB power in the STB?

I loop out from my Coolsat 5000 to a twinhan, then to a Skywalker, I'd also loop to my Skystar but the Skywalker doesn't have a loop out. I use a 2 ft -3 ft coax jumper between each and it works fine, you shouldn't have any problem.

 

[voomvoom]

I do have a question about the Twinhan 1020a. There are two RF connectors on the back of this card.

Can you slave an STB using the extra RF connector if you turn off the LNB power in the STB?

My Twinhan 102g has them marked as LNB IN and LNB OUT. I don't use the OUT, but I would think it would work? I would play it Safe and turn off the LNB Power in the STB.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Anole and thanks to you too Al!

I think that will help in scanning new transponders and inputting them into MyTheatre or DVBDream.

BTW, the Bullet LNBF from SatAV is a nice tiny LNBF. I used a the top half of a grounding clamp to hold it in place on my Primestar 84e after removing the plastic casing, with the Universal hanging off the side for 129. I didn't have a 10 mm wrench, so I just hand tightened the White Springs LNBF holder on it and left it kinda swinging in the wind and am still getting White Springs with 35 SQ measured in MT. I need to get back up there and tighten it up.

I am seeing no difference in SQ using the Bullet and the OEM voltage controlled Primestar LNBF on G10.

 

[starman345]

I think that will help in scanning new transponders and inputting them into MyTheatre or DVBDream.

I can't imagine doing it any other way Manufacturers seem to be getting away from including those loop out ports on their pci cards. I've been shopping for a dvb-s2 card and the only one I've found with loop out is the DVBworld.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Starman!

I can't imagine doing it any other way Manufacturers seem to be getting away from including those loop out ports on their pci cards.

I have the Traxis now running out of the Loop Out port with the LNB power off on the Traxis. It stinks not being able to power the LNB with the Traxis at the same time, but I know it would probably blow up the card.

At least now I can scan quickly on the same satellite and polarity and if I find something can put it into MyTheatre.

I doubt if there will be too many more cards with both ports. Cost cutting seems to be the feature of the day.