Couple Feuds With Dish Network Over San Jose Sharks Games

[HanoverPretzel]

Thought this was interesting:

Couple feuds with Dish Network over San Jose Sharks games | abc7news.com

I'm glad they were able to get their money back. I wish Dish would extend this courtesy to all of it's subscribers. If someone subscribes to a service to specifically get a certain team's games or a specific channel, and those games or that channel is no longer provided due to a contract dispute, Dish should allow those customers to opt out of their contract without an early termination fee if the customer desires to do so. Same if there are rate hikes.

What's interesting is that with cell phone contracts if they change the fee or the service provided in any way, you do have the option under the law to opt out. I wonder why it isn't the same with television providers.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Simple answer is some folks will use any dispute to use it as their ticket to get out of their contract for free... even if they nver watched the channel.

 

[dangue]

That's just bad timing. Signing up the day a dispute for your favorite channel arises. Nothing to be done there. I doubt the Dish sales people who signed them up had any knowledge of the pending dispute (CSRs tend to be the last to be informed of such things). And ultimately the contract is what it is. Dish had the right to charge the fee (immediately cancellations means that Dish lost money on these customers- installation, customer service/sales calls and a new receiver becoming a used/refurb receiver after the initial use).

I think this is all about being and informed consumer. You have to know what you're getting into before you do it. If you can't live with the terms, then don't sign on the dotted line.

One thing that would make the process fairer is more information. If consumers knew ahead of time when contracts for different providers were set to expire, they'd be better able to judge the risks of losing a favorite channel and make a more informed decision.

The only reason why phone contracts can be broken without penalty under the listed situations is because state laws exist protecting consumers in those instances, not because the phone companies do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Simple answer is some folks will use any dispute to use it as their ticket to get out of their contract for free... even if they nver watched the channel.

I wonder if contracts are really necessary in this day and age- especially two year contracts. Baring in mind that the price of satellite equipment has likely dropped a lot, and that most of it gets returned when a customer leaves, one wonders how long these companies really have to keep a customer to recover sunk costs. Such a time might be even shorter for someone like me where I had to pay for installation and only got SD equipment -- they may have made their money back already. I'm not saying that they have made their money back, it just wouldn't surprise me if they have.

It's not quite like the old days where the equipment was likely worth close to a $1,000, right?

I don't really like the model of contracts for services in general, especially when you have contracts like with television providers where it basically says they can alter the channel lineup in whatever way they want whenever they want, and that they can increase the price whenever they want and you have to pay it. Even the hated cell phone contract at least lock in a price and a level of service for the consumer, though I'm not in love with that concept either.

The people I've talked to in the cable industry say that they are headed more and more toward a contract model as well, so this isn't necessarily a satellite specific issue anymore to the same extent it used to be. I just in general miss the "good old days" where one was going month to month with virtually everything and if one didn't like a change to the service or one was having trouble affording something either temporarily or permanently, one could switch or cancel on a dime, as long as they had paid for the months they had already used.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The MPEG4 equipment still costs around $1000 for a MPEG4 HD DVR. Then you have the DISH costs, the costs of the installers time, the cost of the cable (have you see the price of coper lately), the cost of the comission they pay the retailer, the cost for other equipment such as multi dish switch... If you look at their SEC filings it is still costing above $1000 per subscriber.

 

[Jhon69]

With Dish Network,you purchase all your equipment and there is no 24 month commitment,problem solved.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I think this is all about being and informed consumer. You have to know what you're getting into before you do it. If you can't live with the terms, then don't sign on the dotted line.

To some extent, that's true, but the television market has such high barriers to entry that consumer options are very limited. If you're lucky, you have three service providers to choose from (cable, Directv, Dish Network). In some areas or living situations, you might not even have that (i.e. No clear line of sight for one or both satellite providers, a rural area that cable doesn't extend to, etc.). Then, that may be further paired down by maybe one provider raising their prices beyond what you can afford, or a company not selling to most people with poor or unverifiable credit (At one time, Directv was rumored to be asking for around $900 upfront for people who's credit was bad enough who wanted to sign up and get their Sunday Ticket package).

So, it's not quite like buying toilet paper where you may have half a dozen (probably more like a dozen) or more stores in your area that sell it, and where each store has a zillion different brands and price points. With television, your options are often very limited, if you have any options at all.

Of course, you do always have the option to say "Forget it, I'm not going to watch television at all", but that's not realistic for a lot of people. I actually tried to go without for a while and found the experience really frustrating.

One thing that would make the process fairer is more information. If consumers knew ahead of time when contracts for different providers were set to expire, they'd be better able to judge the risks of losing a favorite channel and make a more informed decision.

I agree completely. One thing that's concerned me is that I really have no way of knowing when the contracts between Dish and my local RSNs expire. If, before signing up, I could have verified that they extend beyond my contract or close to the end of it, that would have really eased my mind. Alternately, if I could have known at that point that they'd expire at some point sooner than that, I might have waited to sign up or explored a different provider.

The only reason why phone contracts can be broken without penalty under the listed situations is because state laws exist protecting consumers in those instances, not because the phone companies do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

It'd be nice if we had similar regulations and laws in place to regulate the television industry, but the political climate in this country is so pro-big business and so anti-regulation that I don't have much hope of that happening.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

The MPEG4 equipment still costs around $1000 for a MPEG4 HD DVR. Then you have the DISH costs, the costs of the installers time, the cost of the cable (have you see the price of coper lately), the cost of the comission they pay the retailer, the cost for other equipment such as multi dish switch... If you look at their SEC filings it is still costing above $1000 per subscriber.

What do you think it runs, ballpark, for a situation like mine without any HD or DVR installed? Just a basic SD installation.

Do you think there might be room in the industry for variable contracts? I.E. Get the expensive equipment and be contracted for two years, get the cheapest possible and be contracted for 6-12 months (or whatever).

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

What do you think it runs, ballpark, for a situation like mine without any HD or DVR installed? Just a basic SD installation.

Do you think there might be room in the industry for variable contracts? I.E. Get the expensive equipment and be contracted for two years, get the cheapest possible and be contracted for 6-12 months (or whatever).

I would say (because I know how much retailers get per install) that the cost is up around (but not over) $1000 for a standard SD install.

 

[Dishman1978]

I would say (because I know how much retailers get per install) that the cost is up around (but not over) $1000 for a standard SD install.

I was told it takes at least an average of 18 months for dish to get thier mobey back, after that then they start seeing a profit.

 

[Anony55]

The MPEG4 equipment still costs around $1000 for a MPEG4 HD DVR...

That seems kinda high considering the cost of the 211k, which is MPEG4 & HD. All it lacks to be top-of-the-line is a second sat tuner, UHF remote & a hard drive. Since the 211k sells for around $110 with free shipping, it's hard to see how a 2nd tuner, remote & a hard drive could get the price up that high. And the $110 is what we pay, I assume Dish pays less than that.

Perhaps the manufacturer is gouging Dish a little on the top DVRs.

What do you think it runs, ballpark, for a situation like mine without any HD or DVR installed? Just a basic SD installation...

If you can put together a cabinet that your wife brings home, you know, the ones that say "some assembly required" on the box... you could almost certainly do a self install of your own Dish Network equipment.

211k for $110, Dish 1000.2 for around $60, and about $15 for the cable. That's about $185 for the whole setup (if self installed). You can decide later if you wanna pay to activate HD or EHD.

BTW, going this route you don't have to have a contract. Also, you can sell the equipment when you're done or keep it for reactivation later. You don't have to pay to ship anything back when you're done.

Cheers

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

That seems kinda high considering the cost of the 211k, which is MPEG4 & HD. All it lacks to be top-of-the-line is a second sat tuner, UHF remote & a hard drive. Since the 211k sells for around $110 with free shipping, it's hard to see how a 2nd tuner, remote & a hard drive could get the price up that high. And the $110 is what we pay, I assume Dish pays less than that.

Again your not factoring in the other costs, such as commissions, other equipment (Dish 1000) switch, cable and installation costs.

I can also tell you that while they are selling equipment such as a 211k for $110 they are still taking a loss on it.

Again all this info is listed in DISH Networks SEC 10K filings.

 

[Anony55]

Again your not factoring in the other costs, such as commissions, other equipment (Dish 1000) switch, cable and installation costs...

That's because your post listed those as separate expenses. If you meant $1,000 for turn key installation, then that makes more sense.

Cheers

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Agreed,

I know if everyone purchased their own equipment Claude at DISHSTORE would be really happy.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

If you can put together a cabinet that your wife brings home, you know, the ones that say "some assembly required" on the box... you could almost certainly do a self install of your own Dish Network equipment.

211k for $110, Dish 1000.2 for around $60, and about $15 for the cable. That's about $185 for the whole setup (if self installed). You can decide later if you wanna pay to activate HD or EHD.

BTW, going this route you don't have to have a contract. Also, you can sell the equipment when you're done or keep it for reactivation later. You don't have to pay to ship anything back when you're done.

Cheers

I probably should have gone that route. They charged me $99 for installation and I still have a contract and will be charged to return my equipment on the back end. I thought those sort of setups were more expensive to buy at the consumer level than they appear to be. Hindsight is 20-20, though.

On the other hand, I am not sure I could install the dish where they wound up having to put it. I'm not in great health and I don't have a ladder that can reach there -- between those two factors and my natural clumsiness, I could see that resulting in a really bad fall for either myself or the new equipment. It's sort of perched on the exterior of the apartment above me in a pretty odd way. Fortunately, I know the landlord pretty well, so getting permission for that wasn't a problem.

 

[Anony55]

I thought those sort of setups were more expensive to buy at the consumer level than they appear to be...

If you do a dual tuner DVR... they are more expensive. An account with just a single 211k on it is about the only way to "beat the system". Once you start buying dual tuners or multiple receivers, it gets more expensive.

It doesn't really pay to own your equipment after a certain point. But if a single 211k (or maybe two) satisfies your needs, owning your equipment makes a lot of sense.

Cheers

 

[Anony55]

...I could see that resulting in a really bad fall for either myself or the new equipment...

Yeah, that's when it gets really expensive. Especially if what falls is you. Better to be stuck with a 2 year contract than the pain of a fall... and the pain of an emergency room bill.

Cheers

 

[Jim5506]

OR a tree might fall on you when you go out to get the paper.

 

[cashcobra]

I wonder if contracts are really necessary in this day and age- especially two year contracts. Baring in mind that the price of satellite equipment has likely dropped a lot, and that most of it gets returned when a customer leaves, one wonders how long these companies really have to keep a customer to recover sunk costs. Such a time might be even shorter for someone like me where I had to pay for installation and only got SD equipment -- they may have made their money back already. I'm not saying that they have made their money back, it just wouldn't surprise me if they have.

It's not quite like the old days where the equipment was likely worth close to a $1,000, right?

I don't really like the model of contracts for services in general, especially when you have contracts like with television providers where it basically says they can alter the channel lineup in whatever way they want whenever they want, and that they can increase the price whenever they want and you have to pay it. Even the hated cell phone contract at least lock in a price and a level of service for the consumer, though I'm not in love with that concept either.

The people I've talked to in the cable industry say that they are headed more and more toward a contract model as well, so this isn't necessarily a satellite specific issue anymore to the same extent it used to be. I just in general miss the "good old days" where one was going month to month with virtually everything and if one didn't like a change to the service or one was having trouble affording something either temporarily or permanently, one could switch or cancel on a dime, as long as they had paid for the months they had already used.

You can go month to month with Dish but that means no promotional pricing, no freebies, and paying full price for everything.