Couldn't Dish remove the SD...

[coldblood2k7]

Bare with me here...

Seeing as I have Dual mode on my VIP 622, and looking at the second TV which is not HD, Im able to watch the HD channels anyway.

Now becuase of that, couldn't Dish theoretically remove the SD channels, for space for more HD channels?

Now of course each sub who dont have an HD receiver, couldnt they release a software update to include HD into there receivers?

Would this be feesible?

 

[RandallA]

Well, it works for you but there are plenty of others that don't have ViP receivers and they don't have HD. So it wouldn't work for most customers.

 

[rcdallas]

I'm guessing there is more Non-HD customers vs HD customers. I'd have to say I've installed by far more SD then HD. Lots of Rural folks are just happy to have TV, let alone HDTV

 

[mattopia]

I think the OP means, can't Dish just push the HD feed of any channels that are in both formats, and then downconvert to SD at the receiver?

It's a novel idea, I love it, but there's lots of downsides. Content streach-o-visioned and then downconverted again probably looks terrible, and there's millions of receivers that probably need replaced to downconvert.

 

[Jim5506]

All the SD receivers out there now CANNOT decode the MPEG4 signal, and there is no software fix.

Dish would have to replace about 10 million receivers, maybe more.

I have 4 receivers and two of them are MPEG2 ONLY.

 

[wonko]

And the older non-HD receivers won't handle 8PSK anyway, so there's no way they could even get the stream to decode, even if they had enough CPU to do it.

 

[Paradox-SJ]

For every HD Channel that is NOT MPEG4 they could down-rez to SD right? Like HBO and Showtime HD East feeds...

 

[royrose]

Once the OTA network analog channels are turned off, people with old tv's who have cable, dish or direct tv will have to have those channels downconverted from the digital channels.

I believe that it won't be long after that that cable/satellite nets will eliminate their SD feeds and expect the cable/sat companies to down res for SD customers.

How they would do that is a question. Would they replace all recievers or would the cable/sat companies uplink a downrezed version. In either case, SD customers would get a horizontally leterboxed picture, shrunk to fit their 4x3 screen. New customers, even those with old sets, would probably get HD tuners like the vip222.

Roy

 

[skottey]

Bare with me here...

Seeing as I have Dual mode on my VIP 622, and looking at the second TV which is not HD, Im able to watch the HD channels anyway.

Now becuase of that, couldn't Dish theoretically remove the SD channels, for space for more HD channels?

Now of course each sub who dont have an HD receiver, couldnt they release a software update to include HD into there receivers?

Would this be feesible?

The second TV on my 622 is an SD TV on my patio (I also have a 211 connected to another HD and another SD box). The HD channels look great on the SD TV, don't they? They should get rid of channels such as The Science Channel SD that are only a simulcast of HD/SD and just have the box down-convert for the SD TVs, freeing up room for channels as you suggested. I'd rather have the wide screen video with black bars on an SD TV than pan and scan anyway. HD looks better on an SD TV than SD looks on an HDTV. Everything should be an HD signal and those without HD would get a down-convert. That makes more sense to me. All boxes would be HD but have a down-converted SD output. That way, when people get and HDTV, they are already good to go with the box too.

 

[skottey]

. Content streach-o-visioned and then downconverted again probably looks terrible, and there's millions of receivers that probably need replaced to downconvert.

His suggestion would obviously include the end of stretch-o-vision

 

[jayn_j]

I think that over time they will start converting channels to MPEG-4, starting with the AT-250 exclusive channels. There isn't a large installed base of AT-250 and I would expect that a higher than normal percentage already have an MPEG-4 capable receiver. I also expect that early next year, the entry level receiver will be MPEG-4 capable. Didn't they already announce that one?

 

[skottey]

For every HD Channel that is NOT MPEG4 they could down-rez to SD right? Like HBO and Showtime HD East feeds...

HBO and Showtime do this? I didn't know that. I get both channels with cable, SD and HD versions of each. My HD feeds are 16x9 and my SD feeds are 4:3, totally not a downconvert. If it was a downconvert it would have black bars or be cropped on the SD version. It isn't. It is a totally different feed of the same programming.

I wish HBO and Showtime would do a downconvert of the HD feed on their SD channels, but they don't. If they did, as you suggest, it would look better on the older SD TVs because it would be a truer aspect ratio, not 4:3.

Edit- I reread your original comment and now think you were suggesting HBO and Showtime do this. I read it as you were saying they already do. Sorry if I was mistaken.

 

[jerryez]

Dish is still installing mpeg2 receivers.

 

[Tyralak]

Dish is still installing mpeg2 receivers.

Every day. The only mpeg4 receivers are the 411,211,222,622,722, 622HZ All other receivers are mpeg2.

 

[vegassatellite]

I vaguely recall somewhere that Mpeg4 gets something like 2 for 1 on bandwidth. Switching to an all Mpeg4 system would open quite a bit of bandwidth. Might not be practical, but the suggestion of starting with AT250 customers and then on down would be a good way to go. Also, start with Premium channel customers. As more base mpeg4 receivers are made for this rollout, manufacturing costs ought to go down enough to spread this into the lower packages.

If he were to do this though, he would need to address piracy at the same time and plan for the new system to use something other than what's in place now.

Realistically, 222 ought to replace the 322 anyway. Just waive the HD enabling fee.

 

[Jim5506]

For the sake of argument, lets say there are 10 million SD MPEG2 only receivers out there.

Let's assume that 1/3 of them are DVR's.

If dish replaces all the standard receivers with 211's/222's @ $150 each (Dish cost) and the DVR's with 622/722's @ $300 each (Dish cost), we are looking at a $2 billion dollar outlay.

I figure my estimates are very conservative, it could be $3 billion.

Don't look for it too soon.

 

[whatchel1]

Missing the point

The second TV on my 622 is an SD TV on my patio (I also have a 211 connected to another HD and another SD box). The HD channels look great on the SD TV, don't they? They should get rid of channels such as The Science Channel SD that are only a simulcast of HD/SD and just have the box down-convert for the SD TVs, freeing up room for channels as you suggested. I'd rather have the wide screen video with black bars on an SD TV than pan and scan anyway. HD looks better on an SD TV than SD looks on an HDTV. Everything should be an HD signal and those without HD would get a down-convert. That makes more sense to me. All boxes would be HD but have a down-converted SD output. That way, when people get and HDTV, they are already good to go with the box too.

The SD channels are there because they have to be there for the customers that only have the SD boxes. The SD boxes can't be down converted by a box that can not see MPEG 4. So until all boxes are MPEG 4 they can not do what is being asked.

 

[vegassatellite]

The cost of operating a satellite is around $300m. By switching to an all mpeg4 system, they could cut those costs in half by needing fewer satellites or they could double their capacity and offset the costs by premiums associated with new channel additions, selling recovered receivers to companies like ExpressVu, etc.

This would be a long term decision, not a short term one. Doubling their capacity would be a lifelong benefit and would yield returns over a long period. It would also shorten the period over which it takes to recover the investments made in the actual satellites because more channels per transponder means more revenue per transponder.

If he halts the installation of current mpeg2 receivers and installs only mpeg4 units, then in a couple of years, they would represent a larger market share of all of Dish's receivers out there. Also, by phasing in the transition by swapping subs with AT250 first, premiums first, etc., he could then consolidate those extra channels in the AT250 and free up a little room there. That extra room can be given to other revenue-producing units to further offset the transitional costs.

 

[bbtkd]

Time will reduce that...

For the sake of argument, lets say there are 10 million SD MPEG2 only receivers out there.

Let's assume that 1/3 of them are DVR's.

If dish replaces all the standard receivers with 211's/222's @ $150 each (Dish cost) and the DVR's with 622/722's @ $300 each (Dish cost), we are looking at a $2 billion dollar outlay.

I figure my estimates are very conservative, it could be $3 billion.

Don't look for it too soon.

Within 2 years, many of those old MPEG2 receivers will have been retired for one reason or another and the cost of the MPEG4 receivers will decrease until the cost of replacing the remaining receivers is more than covered by the savings in transponder costs (per sat) and/or increased revenue from more channels (attracting more customers and raising prices).

I suspect that in the next year we will see an upgrade plan that will trade a HD receiver for older SD receivers for a nominal fee which covers much of the manufacturing cost. It can't cost them more than $50 to manufacture a receiver.

 

[kb7oeb]

They can reduce the numbers a bit if they switch to 8PSK but stay on MPEG2, I think all current models do 8PSK now and they have all those 811s they turned into 381s

With AT&T probably buying dish I think its all up in the air. Heck they haven't even announced converting the remaining mpeg2-hd channels yet.