If I were comparing two dishes, one 1 meter dish with a gain of 32.1 db @ 4GHz and a 1.2 meter with 33.7 @ 4GHz, what would that mean to my receiver?
Comparing dishes, differences in antenna gain
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Well.... 33.7 db is better than 32.1 db, so the 1.2m should perform better? But, stat numbers are not always correct, and besides, you might not can tell the difference with the naked eye? Really it's hard to say, venders and/or merchants are known to exaggerate.....!
Guess that's why I'm asking. I know size (I'm laughing now as I type this) matters. But is it worth freezing my butt and fingers off and spending some money on a bigger dish. I suppose that's relative too. So how about I put it this way instead.
I've got a 1 meter dish that's borderline on a couple c-band transponders on Galaxy 16 that I want (nets, specifically). Would the dish size increase from a 1M to a 1.2M, and a 1.5 db theoretical increase make that much difference to getting them?
I've got a 1 meter dish that's borderline on a couple c-band transponders on Galaxy 16 that I want (nets, specifically). Would the dish size increase from a 1M to a 1.2M, and a 1.5 db theoretical increase make that much difference to getting them?
I would say yes for a 1.5m and hopefully (my guess Yes) for a 1.2m....? But you realize, for C-Band these smaller dishes are not practical....?
But if I wasn't happy, I'd go for it..!!
Even better... may not be good enough....?????
But if I wasn't happy, I'd go for it..!!
Even better... may not be good enough....?????
I've got a 1M Winegard now that claims to be 73% efficient. Found somebody locally that has a Fortec 1.2M they're willing to part with, for a fee. Fortec claims 75% efficient. After plugging some numbers into a spreadsheet as well as another website I googled across, tells me that the 1M -> 1.2M is...err...could/should be a 1.5db improvement.
I'm having a...hrm...how to put it...time/discussion with the wife over her WAF on a BUD. I'd use the "compromise" of something smaller, considering the nets on G16 is all I really want (right now, at least). Then if she gets over the size of a 1.2, if it was even worth the money, maybe something bigger later.
Hard to find a 1.2M around here, let alone a 1.5M. Shipping is enormous. So I want to be *cough cough* reasonably sure that a theoretical 1.5db is worth the $$$.
Hard to find a 1.2M around here, let alone a 1.5M. Shipping is enormous. So I want to be *cough cough* reasonably sure that a theoretical 1.5db is worth the $$$.
I've never read a bad word about a Winegard dish. I have read bad comments on Fortec dishes. That being said, I've got a few 90cm Fortecs and an 80 cm Fortec and a 1.2m Fortec and all work as expected for my purposes. I don't have C-Band on any of them nor have I tried C-Band on any of them. I have experimented with C-Band on a 1.2m GeoSat Pro dish and although I did get some channels, it's definitely not worth anything but playtime for me. I watch C-Band with a 10' dish. If someone is giving you a free 1.2m dish, get it! Now, before someone else gets it!
No no.... Not free, for a fee. It's new, never out of the box. Would still be less than having one shipped though as it's only a 30 minute drive from here.
Assuming your 1m is on a motor, the 1.2m dish is heavier, and will take a strong motor to move it. The Stab HH120 moves it, very slow uphill and even slower on Vertical. So I would think you need to consider the motor as well. I don't know if an SG2100 (any version) will handle it safely, at least in a long term consideration?
Not sure about signal strength, but in the sound world 3db means a doubling of loudness. I myself wouldn't spend money for that much gain increase.
But you could always use it for something else.
How much of a fee?
But you could always use it for something else.
How much of a fee?
Drawing parallels to sound can be a bit tricky, because the ear's response is not strictly logarithmic. In addition, people will disagree on what a 'doubling' of sound level is when the judgment is subjective.
In the world of digital communications, 1.5 dB can easily make the difference between clean reception and nothing. If you have to get C-band on a small dish, which sounds very problematic, I would take every bit I could get. As an illustration, a 1.8m would pull about 3.5 dB more than a 1.2m and a 3m would pull about 4.5 dB than a 1.8m. These differences, while not seemingly large, dramatically increase the number of transponders one can lock. As rates, FEC and higher modulation encodings will generally be going up, this will put hard limits on what you can receive in the future.
One thing to think about is a 1.2m dish is going to be an offset dish, which means its smallest dimension is 1.2m. The vertical axis will be somewhat greater. Comparing a 1.8m prime-focus to a 1.2m offset is a step up in dimensions, but a little less than is immediately apparent. Some 1.8m dishes are pretty inexpensive and fairly light. You also would not have to hassle with the mechanical and E&M problems of mating a C-band feed to an offset dish. A 1.8m dish will get a fair fraction of what is out there.
Compare the size of a large cherry pie about 47 inches in diameter, to that of one measuring aproximately 39 inches. [1.2 to 1 meter] It might not seem like much until you punch-out about a 2-foot circle of area from the larger pie to reduce the effective surface area to equal that of the smaller. A 24 inch diameter pie looks rather appealing to me. If you're not into pie, try imagining a 1.2 meter dish with a signal voiding shadow 24 inches in diameter on the surface. That sort or shade isn't cool. Also, the bigger the dish, the better the resolution to isolate adjacent C-band sats. Especially desirable where adjacent transponders tend to interfere.
So, aim for the bigger pie when taking your best shot.
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So, aim for the bigger pie when taking your best shot.
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Wish there was a way to know for sure before spending $$$ whether what I want to do will work. Unless when I get to the guy's place and decide to get the 6' that I know he has. Wonder what the wife would think about that. 
Wish there was a way to know for sure before spending $$$ whether what I want to do will work. Unless when I get to the guy's place and decide to get the 6' that I know he has. Wonder what the wife would think about that.
If there's any way to make the 6' work, I would strongly encourage you to take that path. As sidha said, you'll get plenty of interference from other satellites with small dishes. Even a 6' will have some problems. Not having enough gain on top of that will close out all but a handful of well-isolated and powerful transponders.
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Sorry I was too worn out to get in here last night. As mentioned (guessed at) prior to this, to increase 3db, you would essentially have to increase the power of the signal by a factor of two (double the power for an increase of 3 db). As mentioned earlier, the increase of audio power by a factor of two would be an increase of 3db, a "just noticable" difference in sound, though with signal transmission could easily be the difference in a received sat signal and a lost, or pixelated sat signal. 1.5db would be a minor difference, but then, it too might be the difference in usable and lost signal....
Sorry I was too worn out to get in here last night. As mentioned (guessed at) prior to this, to increase 3db, you would essentially have to increase the power of the signal by a factor of two (double the power for an increase of 3 db). As mentioned earlier, the increase of audio power by a factor of two would be an increase of 3db, a "just noticable" difference in sound, though with signal transmission could easily be the difference in a received sat signal and a lost, or pixelated sat signal. 1.5db would be a minor difference, but then, it too might be the difference in usable and lost signal....
And if the signal is still not available, I've spent money on not available as opposed to available.
Think I'd rather spend the money on something that I know would work and have an increased WAF from that, than a much higher WAF with a dish that isn't quite big enough and doesn't quite work.
Think I'd rather spend the money on something that I know would work and have an increased WAF from that, than a much higher WAF with a dish that isn't quite big enough and doesn't quite work.
Am I missing something here? If you have to pay -- it had best work. Can you put up a larger dish? How large?
I see you said there are not many 1.2 ,1.5 M dishes there. My gut says you shold be looking for a 12 footer! If you can put it up - I for one will be praying for you to find an excellent on! It is His birthday so have a 12 foot for Christmas!
I'd have no problem getting a 12 footer. The problem I'd have then is finding a place to sleep somewhere outside of the house and hiring the best divorce lawyer in town before she does. Because otherwise she's going to bury me in a 12' grave.
All I want is the nets/feeds on 99. I know can do it with a 6 footer. If I can get them then I ditch the sub. Ditching the sub will pay for the dish. But I want to do it with a dish that's as small as possible. And if I knew a 1.2 meter would do it, I'd get that instead of something larger. A 1.2, 1.5, and 1.8M is exceptionally hard to find around here unless it's new. A new 1.2M is $160, 1.5M is just way too much due to shipping (even more than a 2.4M), and a 1.8M is $220, plus taxes.
The 1M Winegard just barely gets the nets on 99 for me, with the Viewsat just at threshold and the Coolsat 2% below threshold. Which is why I wondered is a 1.2M for 1.5db increase, minimum, worth the expense and possibly still have nothing. But the wife isn't gonna be happy with me spending money on something that doesn't work. But then she's also not happy about a bigger dish. And the only way to know is to spend the money. Can you tell I'm married?
A happy wife makes a happy husband. I've been happy now for 10 years. No reason to change things over a dish.
All I want is the nets/feeds on 99. I know can do it with a 6 footer. If I can get them then I ditch the sub. Ditching the sub will pay for the dish. But I want to do it with a dish that's as small as possible. And if I knew a 1.2 meter would do it, I'd get that instead of something larger. A 1.2, 1.5, and 1.8M is exceptionally hard to find around here unless it's new. A new 1.2M is $160, 1.5M is just way too much due to shipping (even more than a 2.4M), and a 1.8M is $220, plus taxes.
The 1M Winegard just barely gets the nets on 99 for me, with the Viewsat just at threshold and the Coolsat 2% below threshold. Which is why I wondered is a 1.2M for 1.5db increase, minimum, worth the expense and possibly still have nothing. But the wife isn't gonna be happy with me spending money on something that doesn't work. But then she's also not happy about a bigger dish. And the only way to know is to spend the money. Can you tell I'm married?
A happy wife makes a happy husband. I've been happy now for 10 years. No reason to change things over a dish.
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