Closed Caption Enhancements Please

DishSubLA

SatelliteGuys Master
Original poster
Apr 9, 2006
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This has be mentioned before with many CC users agreeing, but I am feeling stronger than ever about this: Please Dish, will you add the other options for CC characters on the Hopper that you do on the ViP's. Specifically, at least the DROP SHADOW options. I use translucent, and without the drop shadows the CC characters can not been seen clearly in far too many instances depending upon the image on screen. At first, it seemed this didn't happen too often, but the last several months, it is happening far too often and makes it frustrating to watch. Other CC users have stated the same and they know what I'm talking about and having a solid color background block even more of the image on screen.

Any what, let's hope Dish brings the CC options up to at least the ViP options.
 
Agree on both. I suggest that translucent be made a darker background or add another step of grayness or have true color and saturation controls.
-ken
 
My gripe is that so many channels have info about the channel in the same area as the CC. I would like the option to have CC at either the right or left at the bottom to get away from the danged info.
My other desire would be to have better hearing so I didn't need CC. My wife is the one who requires it and I can't get rid of her and she complains if I turn up the volume too high.:rant:
 
I turned on CC while watching Broadchurch the other day, some of the English/Scots accents can be hard to decipher. It worked well but being in the lower left corner, it took my eyes off of the middle of the screen for long periods of time. I'd like to see it in the bottom center so I'm looking at the the captions and the main part of the program at the same time.
 
I turned on CC while watching Broadchurch the other day, some of the English/Scots accents can be hard to decipher. It worked well but being in the lower left corner, it took my eyes off of the middle of the screen for long periods of time. I'd like to see it in the bottom center so I'm looking at the the captions and the main part of the program at the same time.
I'm so used to watching subtitled movies, that I fly right through subtitles/captions, and can return my gaze to the action quite quickly.

Most of the time, it's on for my wife anyway, as English is not her first language. I don't have issues with British/Scottish/Irish/Australian accents. But, some American Deep South and urban black accents can be pretty indecipherable at times.
 
I'd like to see CC come on when the mute is engaged and not otherwise. (or an option for mute-only CC).
 
I'd like to see CC come on when the mute is engaged and not otherwise. (or an option for mute-only CC).
That's the way old TVs used to work. Seems like they could do it at the Dish remote level as an option. Doesn't work on any TVs anymore using the TV remote as it is now controlled at the Dish or other input level. (Backward progress)
 
As for placements of the CC on screen: unless the technology has changed, it is the CC provider (sometimes a human operator or, more recently, a computer) at the time of captioning is the one who determines where on the screen the captions will appear, so Dish or any other MVPD really can't do much, if anything about it. Some caption operators are just plain LAZY or barley competent (or overwhelmed with work by the captioning company/organization) that they fail to follow the GUIDELINES (there is NO standard) that is supposed to be CC usually at bottom of screen, but when a title is superimposed on the video, such as one identifying the speaker, the operator is SUPPOSED to then temporarily move the position of the CC so that the superimposed title can be read clearly, sometimes as far as the very top of the screen. Then, once the super is removed, move the CC stream back to the original position. Uh, yeah, this takes a few extra keystrokes, but some captioners are better than others, but it seems to be getting WORSE the last few years. TV network fictional drama and sit-com shows seem to have the best CC's that follow guideline and will move CC when necessary in almost every instance, perhaps, because the studios are involved, although sub-titles are replacing CC for digital connections while retaining CC for the analog outputs, in many cases. Meanwhile, a lot of programming on History or H2, as examples, are filled with programming that seem to constantly have CC's obscuring titles. Further, if the CC changes or scrolls is also determined by the CC operator.

Now, to be fair, I have been referring to PRE-recorded, pre-produced content where and operator does, indeed, have the opportunity to change the position of the CC so that all titles of a video are never obstructed by CC. However, for live broadcasts, one should NOT expect the CC to be moved because there just isn't the opportunity to do this without falling behind. In such cases the CC operator usually places the CC slightly higher so that one can see tickers and other superimposed titles of, say a newscast.

So, the only thing we can do when we see CC's below par or not being moved to a place so as not to obscure titles on a video, is to directly contact the CC organization/company and be specific in telling them what we've observed and to please take corrective action for future programs. Often, the name of the organization or company who preformed the CC service is at the end of the program. However, if it isn't provided, we may have to contact the channel on which the program appeared, complain to them and ask for the name of the organization who performed the CC service and then content them.

Lastly, the KTLA Morning News is suffering TERRIBLE with a horrid CC operator who skips several seconds, sometimes approaching a minute (the stream absolutely STOPS as if the operator is overwhelmed), of dialogue and audio from both live in-studio segments and location reports as well as seeming barely able to keep up as all sorts of errors are apparent. It's s if the operator just give's up trying to do anything and just wait for more easy audio to CC. I have noticed this for the last few months. Yes, KTLA Morning News presents a challenge trying to keep up with talent banter and silly laughing and Sam Rubin's garbled speech (the most UN-broadcast sounding individual on the planet. He doesn't know how to speak for on air), but past CC operators did a great job with what I would call a 95% accuracy. Of course, they are often in another part of the country (it used to be listening by traditional land line telephone that isn't always the most clear, and don't know how to spell our local cities and streets, etc. because of the legacy of having been a part of Spain and Mexico before the USA. It is sometimes annoying, but often a RIOT of laughter seeing how they struggle and PAUSE to spell the place or street and it is so badly Anglicized. It's clear they are in Iowa or Nebraska or somewhere with cheap wages and cheap cost of living. :)
 
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What's the deal with the UI when turning off CC. It is not properly positioned to click the off button. It has been broken for versions.

Sent from my Nexus 7.2 using Tapatalk 4
 
As for placements of the CC on screen: unless the technology has changed, it is the CC provider (sometimes a human operator or, more recently, a computer) at the time of captioning is the one who determines where on the screen the captions will appear, so Dish or any other MVPD really can't do much, if anything about it.
Partially correct. Yes. The provider sets the CC parameters, which includes the position. But, it also includes color, background, etc. And, those are user configurable on the Hopper. They were even more configurable on the VIP series. And, I've seen playback SW/HW that have position as a user-configurable option. So, there is probably no reason that it can't be a setting on the Hopper, as well.
 
Also, yellow is not yellow. It's orange. On the VIP's, it was yellow, which is extremely visible, more visible even than white. Orange, otoh, is not.
Gary, I was experimenting with my Samsung DLP. I have been seeing ORANGE. That is with "Movie" setting but with "Standard" setting the captions are yellow. I choose Movie because the experts on AVS have said Movie gives the truest-to-life colors, i.e., flesh tones. It uses a lot more Red. In fact so much red that the first LED to burn out is Red. It has twice the fins to cool it as the Green and that more than the Blue LED. I don't know how that works out on the rotating color wheel versions. I have only replaced the Red once--knock on wood. BTW, Samsung has not made these sets for a number of years.

But it does show that the perceived color depends on the TV's setup. I haven't looked up your equipment. Just thought you might like to know.

I've started to like the orange but it requires an opaque black background, which I do not like. Why the 722 was more yellow IDN.
The 921 had the most settings but the 722 allowed setting the edge color, which chose black on a translucent or transparent background. I find this lettering better defined.

-Ken
 
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Partially correct. Yes. The provider sets the CC parameters, which includes the position. But, it also includes color, background, etc. And, those are user configurable on the Hopper. They were even more configurable on the VIP series. And, I've seen playback SW/HW that have position as a user-configurable option. So, there is probably no reason that it can't be a setting on the Hopper, as well.

What is the "SW/HW that have position as a user-configurable option" on playback devices, I presume? Is it proprietary? That would require licensing fees from others (like Echostar) to include such features on their STB's, and they won't want to pay. Very interesting. This would be great news if you can pass along the specifics. Please respond.

Let's remember that SUBTITLES from DVD's or Blu-rays do have placement options, some only to a certain degree, but I've never seen it for Closed Captions. On-line streaming CC is a DIFFERENT STANDARD that may allow for placement options. The CC that is output from Dish and others via analog output is still using the old analog standard of line 21 with all its limitations and that standard never provided placement options. The CC output with a digital stream is different, especially HD STB's do provide minor and easy to implement user optional enhancements such as color, size, and font, but AFAIK it still merely overlays the CC data just as it would appear on the old line 21 system, meaning no placement option. Again, yes, APPEARANCE options, but no PLACEMENT options.

I am unaware of any MVPD STB that can change placements of CC to a high degree or any degree. Given that nearly all the digital devices that can output CC today can offer such an array of color, size, and font options, while NOT providing any placement options, may suggest there is more to changing the placement of the CC than we think, or it is still "fixed" at the time of captioning and involves greater complexity to overcome or alter the code that the CC operator has determined where the CC should appear. Or placement may violate law regarding mandated CC display, and the MVPD's just don't dare go there. Or altering placements of the CC may violate the copyrights that the caption services hold for their captions; this seems the most likely reason we don't have placement settings IMHO. One of the keys to CC is their placement, and the captioning services may feel they that since they are (SUPPOSED to) following guidelines on where to put the captions, and it is best left to them and altering placements or allowing a placement feature crosses the line into copyright infringement as it relates to their display and may be explicitly forbidden by the organization/company creating the CC's. Again, I subscribe to that theory.

OK, we don't really know. But if anyone can find the definitive answer, we are all listening.
 
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