Can't record HBO and Cinemax on Demand with BHN?

[skottey]

HBO Online: Corporate Info : FAQ - HBO Application of CGMS-A Copyright Protection<br><br>

I keep hearing that you can't record HBO on Demand and Cinemax on Demand, just look at my link from the website of HBO.

I have been recording movies to DVD-R for my own use from these two On Demand channels as long as I have had them and have never had a problem with BHN's offering of HBO or Cinemax on Demand. As we speak I am viewing Sexy Beast recorded off HBO on Demand just this AM just to make sure it still works. And it should work damnit! I pay enough for cable.

Now Dish is another story (I subscribe to them too since BHN lacks in the area of offerings), I'd mentioned in another post that I tried recording off Monsters HD and got the fading in and out like the old Macrovision VHS to VHS problem. MY DVR was getting full and I just wanted to dump some of the movies off for my own use. This isn't an issue anymore now that I can store on an external hard drive with Dish, but boy was I angry when I saw that they had copy protection on something I wanted for my own use and that I pay for.

Anybody have a problem recording with BHN on HBO or Cinemax on Demand?

 

[stevenl]

I had no idea that was possible I thought they blocked that..... I know you cant do it for PPV purchases never really tried it for hbo and the likes...

That was my biggest dislike of making PPV all on-demand, because wit hthe ol "In-Demand" stuff I could record it but with on-demand I couldnt.

Just attempted to record an HBO on-demand show on my DVR and as I thought It was not possible. Do you have a BHN DVR or are you using Tivo?

 

[skottey]

I had no idea that was possible I thought they blocked that..... I know you cant do it for PPV purchases never really tried it for hbo and the likes...

That was my biggest dislike of making PPV all on-demand, because wit hthe ol "In-Demand" stuff I could record it but with on-demand I couldnt.

Just attempted to record an HBO on-demand show on my DVR and as I thought It was not possible. Do you have a BHN DVR or are you using Tivo?

I have a BHN DVR, but I am not DVRing the movies from On Demand, I am burning them to a DVD-R. They supposedly have copy protection, as per the link I posted, but it works like a charm burning them to a DVD-R.

I'd mentioned that I couldn't record movies as per the copyright fair use laws off the Dish DVR and I now have that working going through a third party filter I ordered off the net ($125). It was doing that fade to black Macrovision crap when I tried to record from my Dish DVR and I ordered the device. Now I can archive anything. Not that I need to. I have a 750 external hard drive only 1/3rd filled with horror movies from Monsters HD.

 

[stevenl]

ohh I thought you were dvring them heh. Well what your doing sounds like violateing the law. Once the signal leaves BHNs box on the coax or video port, into your device BHN cant control if you record it or dont record it. Your DVD-R sees the image just as your TV does, not sure how they could stop it from being that way.

 

[skottey]

ohh I thought you were dvring them heh. Well what your doing sounds like violateing the law. Once the signal leaves BHNs box on the coax or video port, into your device BHN cant control if you record it or dont record it. Your DVD-R sees the image just as your TV does, not sure how they could stop it from being that way.

violating the law? making my own personal archive copy is all I am doing. that is hardly breaking the law.

 

[stevenl]

To quote you:

"I'd mentioned that I couldn't record movies as per the copyright fair use laws off the Dish DVR and I now have that working going through a third party filter I ordered off the net ($125)."




From the aRticle:

Why can cable subscribers copy a program from HBO or Cinemax (and all the multiplex channels), but are not permitted to copy programs from HOD or MaxOD?

One of the key attributes of HBO's On-Demand services is the convenience of watching great HBO and Cinemax programs on your own schedule - which is why you don't need to "time shift" the programming. HOD and MaxOD provide functions such as rewind, pause, fast-forward, etc. - i.e., the very same viewing conveniences offered by viewing a personal copy, thereby eliminating the need to record your own copy. If you would like to own the entire series of HBO's Original Programming (such as The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, etc.), you are able to purchase the DVDs in attractive box sets with special features such as out-takes and directors' notes.

 

[skottey]

To quote you:

"I'd mentioned that I couldn't record movies as per the copyright fair use laws off the Dish DVR and I now have that working going through a third party filter I ordered off the net ($125)."




From the aRticle:

Why can cable subscribers copy a program from HBO or Cinemax (and all the multiplex channels), but are not permitted to copy programs from HOD or MaxOD?

One of the key attributes of HBO's On-Demand services is the convenience of watching great HBO and Cinemax programs on your own schedule - which is why you don't need to "time shift" the programming. HOD and MaxOD provide functions such as rewind, pause, fast-forward, etc. - i.e., the very same viewing conveniences offered by viewing a personal copy, thereby eliminating the need to record your own copy. If you would like to own the entire series of HBO's Original Programming (such as The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, etc.), you are able to purchase the DVDs in attractive box sets with special features such as out-takes and directors' notes.

The copyright problems I have had are with Dish. My HBO/Cinemax subscription is with BHN and they record just fine without any filter. The point of my post was that HBO says you can't record from OnDemand but it works just fine. Word on the net says it is blocked by some systems (but not by BHN I guess). BHN is doing nothing that I am aware of to block copying, where Dish does.

HBO says there is no need to time shift the On Demand programming because you can watch it when you want since it is On Demand. Fair argument until you see the "available until Sept 4th" on the info screen. What if I am going to Europe and won't be back until Sept 10th, yet I really want to see "Star Wars" from HBO On Demand? It falls off Sept 4th, and I want to watch it on the 10th. Or maybe I want it on a DVD-R so I can watch it on my laptop at the hotel, where TV sucks? I have time to pop in a DVD-R and start recording Star Wars in the background while I pack for Europe and then the DVD is ready to go 2 1/2 hours later. I pay for HBO, I watch my movie, all is well.

Steveni- you are either the biggest devil's advocate on this site, following me around a number of posts, or you are way too in bed with your employer (BHN, isn't it?)

 

[stevenl]

HBO says you cant record from on-demand because they dont want you to record from on-demand thus you are violating their copyright laws. So in that you are breaking the law. Regardless of it you "can" physically record it is still violating your agreement with HBO.

You order HBO to watch it at home on your box that you pay for HBO on, not on your laptop. It is not your personal DVD download source.... You want to watch Star wars in the hotel buy the DVD. Otherwise you are essentially breaking your agreement with HBO Has nothing to do with BHN...


and I post in the BHN forum all the time, the statements you have made here are just asinine gripes that really are not thought out well. Seems you are bitching just to bitch. Not to mention you do not seem to read replies to your msgs only take parts of it.

 

[skottey]

HBO says you cant record from on-demand because they dont want you to record from on-demand thus you are violating their copyright laws. So in that you are breaking the law. Regardless of it you "can" physically record it is still violating your agreement with HBO.

You order HBO to watch it at home on your box that you pay for HBO on, not on your laptop. It is not your personal DVD download source.... You want to watch Star wars in the hotel buy the DVD. Otherwise you are essentially breaking your agreement with HBO Has nothing to do with BHN...


and I post in the BHN forum all the time, the statements you have made here are just asinine gripes that really are not thought out well. Seems you are bitching just to bitch. Not to mention you do not seem to read replies to your msgs only take parts of it.

HBO doesn't WANT me to record from on-demand so therefore I am breaking the law? What logic!

With that same logic, I don't want you to annoy me with your posts so therefore you are breaking the law by posting. What someone wants and the law are two very different things.

Wanting something and the legality of it are not one in the same.

And who said I didn't read your replies? I read your replies, as lengthy and drawn out as they are. Just because I don't address all your drivel doesn't mean I don't read it. You are obviously a BHN employee, proudly defending them at all costs. Admit it, BHN leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[stevenl]

HBO doesn't WANT me to record from on-demand so therefore I am breaking the law? What logic!

With that same logic, I don't want you to annoy me with your posts so therefore you are breaking the law by posting. What someone wants and the law are two very different things.

Wanting something and the legality of it are not one in the same.

And who said I didn't read your replies? I read your replies, as lengthy and drawn out as they are. Just because I don't address all your drivel doesn't mean I don't read it. You are obviously a BHN employee, proudly defending them at all costs. Admit it, BHN leaves a lot to be desired.

They own the content not you. Just like downloading an mp3 you are stealing their content.

What id like to see BHN do, is upgrade the entire plant to node+1 and make everything 1ghz using the new Gainmaker equipment from SA. Get rid fo the old 750 crap which tends to fail way to much (after all its many years old and had to live in this florida enviroment for along time)

Then implant a form of switch video technology and giving us a capacity equal to fios, and the dish's.. But we are talking billions of dollars to upgrade all of BHNs plants, and right now we are in a war with the worlds largest telcom company, and a company that comes very close. Cash is not something BHN can use to compete with att, or verizon. If it became a cash war, BHN would lose easily. Why? Because att has the deepest pockets imaginable. Hell ATT alone is bigger then the ENTIRE CABLE INDUSTRY. That includes comcast/cox/bhn/twc etc. So BHN cant compete dollar for dollar with att, and verizon. They have to focus on other stuff. So instead of focusing on adding a gazillion channels (not that it is forgotten) they are focusing on improving the customers experience. That has shown in BHN Twice winning the JD Powers award for phone, and last year for TV service. (Just a note BHN was the first cable company to earn the phone award ever.)

 

[skottey]

But we are talking billions of dollars to upgrade all of BHNs plants, and right now we are in a war with the worlds largest telcom company, and a company that comes very close. Cash is not something BHN can use to compete with att, or verizon. If it became a cash war, BHN would lose easily.

So are you conceding that BHN is pretty much screwed? They have chosen the * route and pivot? They are not even going to try to upgrade the network? They are fine with losing me and others as customers?

Even if they have some plan over time to upgrade their network, they are remaining silent. They could buy time with me if they laid out even the rawest of public strategy.

You said the CSRs don't give us any information because they could be wrong. Well, it is up to the top management to give the CSRs something real to say. Telling us that there is nothing new is not the right approach. If there is really nothing new, than they are in even bigger trouble.

Let's be honest here. You paint a pretty grim picture of BHN financially compared to ATT and Verizon (which is understandable). Does this mean they are a sinking ship?

IS BHN going to be the service with the meaningless JD Power awards and good customer service while Verizon has crappy customer service, no awards, and a better channel lineup? I am used to dealing with poor customer service from every angle (I am talking about all companies I deal with, not BHN). I am not going to stay with BHN because they are better than most. Life is full of poor customer service. I'll go with who gives the best channel lineup and reasonable price. I am sure I am not alone.

 

[stevenl]

I didn't say BHN was broke, They are making a profit, and growing constantly. Even in tampa where Fios is launched BHN is still growing phone customers faster then Fios is taking video customers.

Better customer service will win out against "More useless channels" Any day.

Not to mention BHN does add channels and constantly upgrades you mentioned earlier about bhn adding (spanish channels or shopping channels) Well guess what Florida is a HUGE market for spanish entertainment. BHN cant please everyone. If tomorrow they added 3 new HD channels, their would be a thread here with someone saying "Why the hell did they add those lame channels and not X channel" and someone else saying "Well this channel is better then X channel so im glad they added it" BHN has to be very smart in the way it operates upgrades and adds new services. It has to get the most bang for its buck and make the most customers happy. If their is 300k spanish customers who want a few more Spanish channels vs a few thousand die hard HD fans who want more HD, of course the Spanish channels come first.

There are many differnt type of TV shoppers.

1. Price
2. Channels
3. New gadgests
4. Specials
5. All around value.

Customers who shop by price, no company wants. Because that customer is likely to leave you for another company to get a deal, maybe come back when the deal is over and repeat. They constantly shop for price and really do not pay off for the company they has them.

Customers that are looking for just the best value for their service, tend to stay the longest and are the most profitable. They want reliable service, with fair pricing and a good lineup. BHN has that, and thats why we continue to dominate the markets in which we have plant. Even with Verizon in Tamp, and the multiple satellite providers. Their is a reason BHN is so dominate and its not because their service sucks....


What I mention about money with att/verizon is simple math. ATT is the LARGEST telcom in the world, but money does not equal success. ATT could dump billions into U-verse and it not go anywhere. Verizon could dump billions into Fios and not get a return for many years or it bust. Look at Americast. Hundreds of millions was invested into it and they closed shop and ran away. Because the cable companies destroyed them. Look at Voom. hundreds of millions was invested in voom. They had a zillion Hd channels, and wheres voom now? They are left with nothing but a HD channel lineup.... So just because ATT is the richest company in the world (I beleive) does not mean they cannot be defeated. David vs Goliath here.. And so far, David is kicking its ass from one side of florida to the other. and in most other markets as well. (David being the cable industry as a whole, did I mention ATT alone has more money then EVERY cable company combined?)

 

[skottey]

Steveni-

I'll pick just a few statements to discuss here....

1- "If their is 300k spanish customers who want a few more Spanish channels vs a few thousand die hard HD fans who want more HD, of course the Spanish channels come first. "

I understand that there are a lot of Spanish customers here in FL. Less percentage wise in my market of Tampa than your Orlando market, but none-the less, there are a lot. But, 99% of the Spanish population that actually makes good money and is middle class or higher (that would even get digital cable in the first place based on what they can afford) also speaks English, and anybody that speaks English would prefer the better content offered on English National channels not offered, such as the Discovery Channels other than Discovery Theater that are offered in HD. Let's face it, you can get by not speaking English in the US (even FL) but to succeed at the American dream you need to speak English. There really aren't too many successful business entrepreneurs in the US that can't speak English. Poor people aren't buying digital cable in great numbers are they? They shouldn't be if our tax dollars are feeding their kids in the public schools anyway, but that isn't relevant in this forum.



2- "Customers who shop by price, no company wants."

I of course agree with you on this. Nothing worse than somebody shopping around calling me just to see how much my price is as opposed to the "other guy" who only charges $XXX with no consideration for the quality of service warranting a higher price. But we'll always have that element of thrift in society. I am not one of those. I am willing to pay more for what I want, and feel that BHN should do more to offer us high end customers what we want, so we don't bail. I won't leave for Verizon based on cost, rather based on their offerings. Even if it costs me more, I'd leave. My number one concern is offerings and quality. Price falls secondary or thirdly. I can't be alone with this.



3- "Look at Americast. Hundreds of millions was invested into it and they closed shop and ran away."

Actually, Americast is still offered here in Pinellas County. They were sold and they are now called Knology. They are a thrifty shopper provider, as discussed above, catering to the cheapos. They offer even less than BHN and their cable modem Internet service sucks badly.



4" Look at Voom. hundreds of millions was invested in voom. They had a zillion Hd channels, and wheres voom now? They are left with nothing but a HD channel lineup"

I rather enjoy Voom as part of my Dish HD package. Especially Monsters HD. Some cable companies are beginning to offer some Voom Channels. Not BHN of course.

 

[stevenl]

Steveni-

I'll pick just a few statements to discuss here....

1- "If their is 300k spanish customers who want a few more Spanish channels vs a few thousand die hard HD fans who want more HD, of course the Spanish channels come first. "

I understand that there are a lot of Spanish customers here in FL. Less percentage wise in my market of Tampa than your Orlando market, but none-the less, there are a lot. But, 99% of the Spanish population that actually makes good money and is middle class or higher (that would even get digital cable in the first place based on what they can afford) also speaks English, and anybody that speaks English would prefer the better content offered on English National channels not offered, such as the Discovery Channels other than Discovery Theater that are offered in HD. Let's face it, you can get by not speaking English in the US (even FL) but to succeed at the American dream you need to speak English. There really aren't too many successful business entrepreneurs in the US that can't speak English. Poor people aren't buying digital cable in great numbers are they? They shouldn't be if our tax dollars are feeding their kids in the public schools anyway, but that isn't relevant in this forum.



2- "Customers who shop by price, no company wants."

I of course agree with you on this. Nothing worse than somebody shopping around calling me just to see how much my price is as opposed to the "other guy" who only charges $XXX with no consideration for the quality of service warranting a higher price. But we'll always have that element of thrift in society. I am not one of those. I am willing to pay more for what I want, and feel that BHN should do more to offer us high end customers what we want, so we don't bail. I won't leave for Verizon based on cost, rather based on their offerings. Even if it costs me more, I'd leave. My number one concern is offerings and quality. Price falls secondary or thirdly. I can't be alone with this.



3- "Look at Americast. Hundreds of millions was invested into it and they closed shop and ran away."

Actually, Americast is still offered here in Pinellas County. They were sold and they are now called Knology. They are a thrifty shopper provider, as discussed above, catering to the cheapos. They offer even less than BHN and their cable modem Internet service sucks badly.



4" Look at Voom. hundreds of millions was invested in voom. They had a zillion Hd channels, and wheres voom now? They are left with nothing but a HD channel lineup"

I rather enjoy Voom as part of my Dish HD package. Especially Monsters HD. Some cable companies are beginning to offer some Voom Channels. Not BHN of course.

1. People from spanish decent prefer watching programs in spanish regardless of knowing english or not. Because the English content is designed for American viewers. The spanish content is designed for spanish viewers. Much like BET is designed for urban viewers. You would be surprised the number of spanish customers we have who are not considerd "rich" Digital cable with spanish tier is less then 70/month which is not expensive at all, add in digital phone (so they get awsome long distance rates and free to New york and such) they can get it on a package for a bit over 100$. Alot of the spanish people in orlando are from other areas of the US, in fact MOSt people in orlando are from other areas, so catering to them in tv, brings them to other services they need like free long distance phone.

2. You are in the minority, on this one. I am with you though. Id rather pay a bit more for better service. So do high end customers who spend more. Unfortunately for people like us, the people who want a bargain far outweigh us and their mass numbers equal more profit then our smaller numbers even though we pay more a month. So BHN must keep a very tight balance. They will be adding more stuff, as I mentioned they are doing alot to expand the bandwidth.

3. Seems your local branch of Americast was bought by knology but AmeriCast as a company went belly up. They left orlando faster Ive ever seen anyone leave, they even left thousands of their microwave dishes on peoples homes. You still see them mainly in "The Ghetto" Because those are the areas they had the most penetration because they were a deep discount provider.

4. Voom as a service provider didn't last. Because they did not diversify. They had one thing going for them HD, and it obviously was not enough to hold down their fort. Maybe in a couple more years as HD becomes more prevalant a business model like vooms would of worked, But for now it obviously didnt. They still maintain their channels, and have sold them to dish and other places to carry them, but again it still does not draw huge numbers of audience.

I've said many times BHN will be very competitive and compete with these companies in HD offerings. They added 2 new HD channels just last month,

and I agree with you on the whole Pivot thing. What a bunch of sh*t They need to focus on what we do best. Provide land line services.

 

[skottey]

Seems your local branch of Americast was bought by knology but AmeriCast as a company went belly up. They left orlando faster Ive ever seen anyone leave, they even left thousands of their microwave dishes on peoples homes. You still see them mainly in "The Ghetto" Because those are the areas they had the most penetration because they were a deep discount provider.

That is interesting they used Microwave over there. In Pinellas they tore up the whole place and laid cable throughout. I'm not sure what kind of percentage of the market they still have but I have some residential customers that use them for their Internet and it sucks. Much slower than RR!