Can signal from 2 dishes be combined to increase strength?

[ScubaGuy]

Hello All,

I've posted before about weak signal strength on 72.7, and one suggestion was to upgrade to an 8 foot or larger dish (I'm not in the States - but don't want to disclose exactly where for fear of getting turned off). I'm already using a 6 foot dish, and have been looking around locally for an 8 foot dish for sale without any luck (those that have them aren't interested in selling, and brand new ones are expensive). There are lots of people selling 6 foot dishes, though, which got me thinking, what if I just buy another 6 foot dish and add the two signals together?

I've been searching the forum all afternoon, but can't find anything saying yes or no to whether the signal coming from two different LNBs both pointed at the same satellite can be added together (maybe through some kind of splitter, and then sent to the switch as if it was only from one) to get double the signal strength.

I've seen some mention about "bandstacking", which I'm going to guess means that this can't be done. However, I figured the only way to know is to ask.

In case it is helpful, here is some information about my system:

Two 6 foot offset dishes, one with single LNB for 72.7, one with two LNBs for 119 and 110 (all LNBs Dish Pro Plus)
A Dish Pro Plus 33 Multi-Dish switch
Dish Solo Node
Hopper with two Joeys
All wired together with RG-6 coax and PPC Outdoor Compression Connectors

Thanks for any assistance

 

[Magic Static]

Short answer. technically yes, but not a DIY kind of thing. Not practical for your purpose. Recent discussion here.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/can-you-combine-signals.341389/#post-3517866

 

[TheKrell]

It would be extremely challenging to combine the signal from two dishes while getting the waveforms perfectly in phase so that the signal from one dish doesn't destructively interfere with the other. If an inline amp from one dish doesn't help, I'd spring for the 8' dish if I were you.

 

[boba]

Please try it and let us know how much it cost to get it working. How much are those 8' dishes selling for?

 

[nelson61]

A legacy lnb will have significantly better reception and might do the job for you if you presently have marginal reception but you would need to switch everything to legacy including the multisat switch.

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[tedb3rd]

You would get better reception if you moved within market.

 

[TheKrell]

A legacy lnb will have significantly better reception and might do the job for you if you presently have marginal reception but you would need to switch everything to legacy including the multisat switch.

And just how can you make legacy stuff work with a Hopper?

 

[nelson61]

So get a 722 or whatever or accept no hd channels

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[ScubaGuy]

Thanks so much for the responses so far (except for the one about moving within market....really?!?).

I didn't think about searching the FTA forum. Interesting read.

I haven't gone to one of the local satellite stores myself looking for an 8 foot dish, largely because a friend of mine said he had already checked and that they were about $2,500. You can buy used 6 foot dishes typically for about $375.

I'm not interested in switching all of my equipment. I'm only having issues with just a few transponders on 72.7. 110 and 119 come in awesome (I've noticed that my signal strengths are as good or better than some of the ones posted on here), and most of 72.7 comes in fine. Unfortunately, I can't get ESPN2 or Fox Sports 1 in HD, and I'd rather not watch them in SD, but have no choice (I wish that Dish would just move those channels to some of the transponders that I get great, but never watch any of the channels).

I'm curious as to what an "inline amp" is? Would that be able to take a signal strength of about 6-9 and get it up over 10 so the channel would come in? If so, where do I get one, how do I hook it up, etc.? I'll be back in the States visiting in a couple of weeks and could see about picking one up.

Thanks again.

 

[primestar31]

An inline amp is mostly used in extreme cases to compensate for coax line length from dish to receiver, in cases where that is say around 250 to 300 feet or more. They aren't typically needed for anything less, and are a crap shoot if they'll help at all.

The BEST solution by far, is a larger dish rather than additional amplification. You can't amplify or do better signal-wise on what may not be there in the first place. The next best solution is to completely optimize what you have now. Such as upgraded wiring with less db loss per foot, best connectors, best lnbs you can find, super-tuning the dish/lnb combo, etc. Was your dish and system professionally installed by a person that knows what they were doing, and has the equipment to make sure it's tuned to the N'th degree? In your case, that would be what I'd try first, if such as person with that equipment to do that is available in your area.

 

[whatchel1]

It is possible to combine 2 6 ft dishes. And here is the BUT. It takes special LNB's. They are called phased locked loop and aren't cheap. Then you need a combiner (or sat receiver) that has the ability to lock the phase together on each transponder. You would probably be better off to find an old C/Ku band dish that isn't being used anymore and put it up prime focus on 72.7. You can run a standard Dish LNB assembly on it but it isn't as efficient as on your present dish but it will work due to the extra size of the dish. But you can modify a dish LNBF to fit onto a Ku waveguide. You need to find a Ku feedhorn and a dish LNBF and combine them. To do that you cut the Dish net feed mouth so it is a little larger around than the mounting holes on the Ku feedhorn. Then you screw them together. It's possible I've done it. But you have to cut pretty exactly and if you aren't used to doing something like that you might want to take it to a machine shop.

 

[sam_gordon]

If I read your post right, you have one dish looking at 3 sats, 110, 119, and 72, right? Would it help to change the LNB on that dish to just do 110 & 119 and have an input side, then put up a second 6' dish looking solely at 72? Surely there's got to be some loss by using one dish on three sats compared to a dedicated dish for each (or in this case, one dish for two sats and another dish for the single).

 

[TheKrell]

If I read your post right, you have one dish looking at 3 sats, 110, 119, and 72, right?

No, that can't be right! The azimuths have to be close to hit two sats with one dish.

 

[sam_gordon]

No, that can't be right! The azimuths have to be close to hit two sats with one dish.

I did say "IF I read the post right", which I didn't. Actually, I read the post right, I just didn't remember it by the time I got to the bottom of the thread. The OP already has two dishes, one for 110 & 119 and a second for 72.

 

[rsmithwi]

Thanks so much for the responses so far (except for the one about moving within market....really?!?).

I didn't think about searching the FTA forum. Interesting read.

I haven't gone to one of the local satellite stores myself looking for an 8 foot dish, largely because a friend of mine said he had already checked and that they were about $2,500. You can buy used 6 foot dishes typically for about $375.

I'm not interested in switching all of my equipment. I'm only having issues with just a few transponders on 72.7. 110 and 119 come in awesome (I've noticed that my signal strengths are as good or better than some of the ones posted on here), and most of 72.7 comes in fine. Unfortunately, I can't get ESPN2 or Fox Sports 1 in HD, and I'd rather not watch them in SD, but have no choice (I wish that Dish would just move those channels to some of the transponders that I get great, but never watch any of the channels).

I'm curious as to what an "inline amp" is? Would that be able to take a signal strength of about 6-9 and get it up over 10 so the channel would come in? If so, where do I get one, how do I hook it up, etc.? I'll be back in the States visiting in a couple of weeks and could see about picking one up.

Thanks again.

Why should Dish move channels to transponders that you can get in an areas where Dish is not allowed to offer service in?. In fact maybe they should re-aim all the beams your way so you don't need an 8 foot dish.

 

[Bob Haller]

one day I stepped to the side of a dish 500 and the signals must of been bouncing off my body. big increase in signal strength. I was standing to the side of a dish 500 on a tripod. I was amazed I could be a signal reflector

Just for the heck of it you might try attaching some alunimum foil to a heavy piece of cardboad or plywood and experiment to try to increase signal strength on the transponders you want. if it doesnt work you lost nothing but it MIGHT help

 

[dare2be]

one day I stepped to the side of a dish 500 and the signals must of been bouncing off my body. big increase in signal strength. I was standing to the side of a dish 500 on a tripod. I was amazed I could be a signal reflector

Just for the heck of it you might try attaching some alunimum foil to a heavy piece of cardboad or plywood and experiment to try to increase signal strength on the transponders you want. if it doesnt work you lost nothing but it MIGHT help

I have to get this in before someone else does. Were you wearing your tinfoil hat?

 

[Bobby]

I have to get this in before someone else does. Were you wearing your tinfoil hat?

You grabbed it before I could!

 

[ScubaGuy]

It is possible to combine 2 6 ft dishes. And here is the BUT. It takes special LNB's. They are called phased locked loop and aren't cheap. Then you need a combiner (or sat receiver) that has the ability to lock the phase together on each transponder. You would probably be better off to find an old C/Ku band dish that isn't being used anymore and put it up prime focus on 72.7. You can run a standard Dish LNB assembly on it but it isn't as efficient as on your present dish but it will work due to the extra size of the dish. But you can modify a dish LNBF to fit onto a Ku waveguide. You need to find a Ku feedhorn and a dish LNBF and combine them. To do that you cut the Dish net feed mouth so it is a little larger around than the mounting holes on the Ku feedhorn. Then you screw them together. It's possible I've done it. But you have to cut pretty exactly and if you aren't used to doing something like that you might want to take it to a machine shop.

Thanks for the info. I've seen some of the large, older style dishes around and have wondered if they could be used. You say that it won't be as efficient, but will work better since it would be bigger. Do you have any idea how large one of those dishes would have to be to approximately have as much gain as an 8' offset dish?

 

[ScubaGuy]

Why should Dish move channels to transponders that you can get in an areas where Dish is not allowed to offer service in?. In fact maybe they should re-aim all the beams your way so you don't need an 8 foot dish.

No, I don't think Dish should do anything special just for me (and the thousands of other loyal Dish customers that are technically receiving, and paying for, US television when we really shouldn't be). I understand where you're coming from, but I would bet that if you were in my situation you would feel the same way. I realize that just because I don't watch WE tv, NBA Television, Independent Film Channel, Sundance Channel, RFD TV, (and many many others) that other people don't thoroughly enjoy those channels. However, I have the right to be annoyed that all of those channels come in great, while my ESPN2 and Fox Sports 1 don't.