I just ordered the adapter, some 3GHz barrels, and a SF95 meter. Should be ready for some more experiments this coming weekend...!
Can I be connected to 61.5 and 129 at the same time?
- Thread starter bhelms
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That has a lot to do with everything.
You just stated it all though at the same time.
The lower to the Horizon the more obstructions there are.
Tree's, Mountains.
Looking out my window 17 degrees would be right into the mountain range thats only 1/4 from my back yard. Impossible to get a signal, unless someone calls a blasting crew.
If every Satellite was 90 degrees up Line of sight would never be an issue, But That most likly impossible.
Since they have to be over the equator,and it can never be 90 degrees for everyone.
Remember that the sat signal comes from an angle above the elevation. I believe that it is 15 to 20 degrees above the elevation.That has a lot to do with everything.
You just stated it all though at the same time.
The lower to the Horizon the more obstructions there are.
Tree's, Mountains.
Looking out my window 17 degrees would be right into the mountain range thats only 1/4 from my back yard. Impossible to get a signal, unless someone calls a blasting crew.
If every Satellite was 90 degrees up Line of sight would never be an issue, But That most likly impossible.
If thats the case 129 should have no problem in northeast Pa. So why can't I pick it up? That would make the 129 at a true angle 30 -35 degrees. That should be no issue at all then.
The way the tech set up my 129 wing the center axis of the dish is pointing slightly below horizontal for the offset angle of the signal incidence to be at ~20.3 deg. which (I believe) is the true elevation of the satellite from my exact location per Dishpointer. (I can't read the elevation scale on that dish.)
In the case of my 61.5 wing, that dish is set so the scale reads about 37 - 38 deg. elevation, but I did not try to "eyeball" that angle wrt the horizon. (Dishpointer says I'm 39 deg. elevation to that sat.) I guess I need to take a protractor and level onto the roof to check those out, but the SS meter will make the final decision regardless...!
In the case of my 61.5 wing, that dish is set so the scale reads about 37 - 38 deg. elevation, but I did not try to "eyeball" that angle wrt the horizon. (Dishpointer says I'm 39 deg. elevation to that sat.) I guess I need to take a protractor and level onto the roof to check those out, but the SS meter will make the final decision regardless...!
If the elevation is 20 degrees then it is a 20 degree angle from you area. What was mentioned above is the dish is offset by around 20 degrees. This throws off a lot of people into thinking the dish is shooting through a tree or at lower elevations, shooting in the ground.
These items arrived yesterday (quick, efficient order from DishStore - Tks...!). I installed the I adapter then placed the SF-95 in line with the LNB feed and re-peaked the D500. I'm still not seeing any real results. The signal from 129 is there, but quite a bit weaker than the one from 61.5. (The SF-95 is useful but only gives a qualitative comparison.) I think the I-adapter replacing the Y helped ever so slightly but that did not make a difference that helped lock the signal. When I went into the house and did a check switch wiith the 129 signal this time the system couldn't even recognize that a signal is there and reported a warning that there were fewer satellites being detected than before with 61.5 connected, so after a couple of retries I aborted the process there.
Last evening we had a very solid cloud cover. I'm wondering if that was hurting the results any. I was able to detect 129 in the system all last weekend and display a signal strength that I could even lock for the most part on Fri. when we had clear skies, but last evening I had essentially nothing at the receiver.
My next experiment will be to raise the 129 D500 about another 8 feet (probably the max. I can handle safely) to see if I can then clear the trees...
I'd say you have trees in your way. 129 should be easy to find due to the power of it. Only thing that can be confusing on the little analog meters is they don't identify what signal you are locking on. It's easy to tweak on a signal that your receiver can't tune.
In you area though you are in a higher signal strength area for 129 that most parts of the US, so relative 129 CONUS signal strength isn't an issue in you area.
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question:
if you have `129 and 61.5 installed, then...how does the receiver pick which sat to use for a channel mirrored on both sats? signal level? is there a default sat?
round here we are told NOT to use 61.5 and 129 together because the receiver will choose to use 129 (which has lower sig levels in this area) but that sounds like 'made up' info to me.
for instance if i go to a job with a 1000.2 installed and i need to install 61.5 for locals, i am told to remove the 1000.2 and replace with a 500 or cover the 129 lnb with duct tape and run a checkswitch. this seems redundant and unnesecary.
so whats the deal?
if you have `129 and 61.5 installed, then...how does the receiver pick which sat to use for a channel mirrored on both sats? signal level? is there a default sat?
round here we are told NOT to use 61.5 and 129 together because the receiver will choose to use 129 (which has lower sig levels in this area) but that sounds like 'made up' info to me.
for instance if i go to a job with a 1000.2 installed and i need to install 61.5 for locals, i am told to remove the 1000.2 and replace with a 500 or cover the 129 lnb with duct tape and run a checkswitch. this seems redundant and unnesecary.
so whats the deal?
Usually I see it hitting 129 first.... I think that's because what gets loaded in the tables first. But sometimes you will see it hitting the other. Signal strength doesn't matter. Just whatever gets loaded in the maps first.
Duct tape blocks the signal on 129? Didn't think it would but maybe I'm wrong.
When's the last time you checked signal on 129 in your area? I figured it would be about the same as 61.5, the locals on 129 will probably be stronger.
wow that was a fast reply.
the levels may be the same, the difference is elevation, which causes los issues in this land of lots and lots of trees. 129 is roughly 6 degrees lower than 61.5 here.
so, my question is, is it safe to leave 129 installed (because a 1000.2 will provide greater signal on 110 and 119) when installing a 61.5 wing?
covering the 129 lnb and running a checkswitch will 'remove' 129 from the switch matrix. but this just doesnt sound like a good idea to me. but it is what experienced techs from this area suggest.
im just curious, as i used to install in the west, never saw a 61.5 wing. now i install in the upper midwest, where you can hit both but 61.5 is easier...and the hd locals are on there.
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Yep, that was the exact solution that lots of people gave out here at Satguys when E5 was at 129. Signal strength from that satellite sucked. So people would put up a 61.5 wing, connect it to the Dish1000, and cover the 129 LNB with aluminum foil. I know several people have now pulled the foil off of 129 due to better signal strength and out of laziness left the 61.5 up.
They way you suggest would work fine, as long as the customer doesn't run check switch again
i guess, but as an installer i am thinking of callbacks and tc's. if the customer calls in and the rep has them do a tests and a red x shows up, there is an assumption that something is wrong. i am wondering if its ok to just leave 129 installed. if you are getting signal issues on a channel coming on 129 and the same channel is also coming off 61.5 with better signal, shouldnt the receiver be able to pick that channel up from the stronger sat?Email notifications are fast
Yep, that was the exact solution that lots of people gave out here at Satguys when E5 was at 129. Signal strength from that satellite sucked. So people would put up a 61.5 wing, connect it to the Dish1000, and cover the 129 LNB with aluminum foil. I know several people have now pulled the foil off of 129 due to better signal strength and out of laziness left the 61.5 up.
They way you suggest would work fine, as long as the customer doesn't run check switch again
The theme of this thread (tho' it has digressed a bit) was whether or not both 61.5 and 129 could be connected at the same time, and the responses have been that with Ciel-2 that's now OK, so I'm guessing sca shouldn't have any issues connecting a D1000 with a 61.5 wing and not covering the 129 LNB, is that correct?
Even if I get 129 working to an acceptable level I'm still planning to leave 61.5 in the system kinda as a "back-up" for any fades I have with 129. 61.5 has been rock solid for me except during extremely heavy precipitation, and that's only a couple times a year. Last evening it was reading ~65 on the 211's meter, about 10 points higher than either the 110 or 119 sats. even with that cloud cover...
Even if I get 129 working to an acceptable level I'm still planning to leave 61.5 in the system kinda as a "back-up" for any fades I have with 129. 61.5 has been rock solid for me except during extremely heavy precipitation, and that's only a couple times a year. Last evening it was reading ~65 on the 211's meter, about 10 points higher than either the 110 or 119 sats. even with that cloud cover...
I haven't done one myself... but I thought 129 doesn't even show up with you do a check switch with an install with 129 covered up. I might be wrong....
Nope. You could have a 20% signal on 129 and 50% on 61.5 and if the receiver happened to pick up the 129 maps first then it's staying on 129 until the receiver happens to load the maps with 61.5 first.
For instance... in one location where locals were coming off a 119 spotbeam (large beams there), the customer moved and had locals for several months with zero issues of 60+% signal on that beam. Then Dish loaded the same locals on 61.5 since that market was also deemed a EA market. The receiver would happen to load the 61.5 maps first you would get the blue slate showing the local channel was out. The customer was outside of the tighter 61.5 spotbeam for the same locals. You could reboot the 722 and boom, there were the locals off of 119. Reboot it again and the same issue with no signal. Just the luck of the draw I guess.
oh yeah, you're probably right about it not showing up at all. i never tried, it just sounds unprofessional to use tinfoil or duct tape to 'solve' an install.
i bet dish could easily add a software code to pick up a mirrored channel from a sat with better signal, but who knows, i'm no engineer.
anyway, thats all good info to know. thanks!
I shall NOT be denied !!! Finally, success with 129W...
Hi folks! I wanted to put some closure on this one. I made a "poor man's inclinometer" with a long level and a piece of cardboard cut with a 20 deg. angle taped to the top edge of the level. (My elevation to 129W is 20.3 deg. per Dishpointer.com.) I put a small table on the peak of my garage roof with the level on it close to the 129W wing location, aimed it to 253 deg. mag., leveled it, then sighted along the cardboard...and I was looking directly into trees about 8' below their tops. The cheap analog meter I bought confirmed the very weak and highly variable signal I was receiving from 129W in comparison to 61.5, and also helped confirm my elevation and bearing. (The audible indication in that meter is great as it was in-line some 15' from where I am adjusting the dish.)
I got a tree surgeon out last weekend and after about 4 hours of trimming...SUCCESS !!! (I'm not going to tell you how much that cost me!) We used my tool to confirm what needed to be trimmed and we were listening to the tone from that meter through the whole process. The improvements were minor until we took the whole top out of one particular red oak (I hated to do that, but we SatGuys have priorities!) and the signal took a huge jump, indicated by the deeper, steadier tone and pegged needle!
I went inside and did another checkswitch with 129W connected in place of 61.5 and it finally worked again. When I checked the signal meter in the Point Dish screen I was getting indicated levels of 50+ on many transponders, and nothing less than 40 for the rest of the actives. I'm comparing that with the no better than 15-18 and highly variable strength I was getting on 4-24 when the 129W wing was first installed. With that I could lock the sat., but I had some drop outs. Then the day after that when the leaves came out significantly I lost the signal altogether per the 211's meter.
I have been out of town since that day and have not had much chance to play with this and watch for any anomalies, but so far it seems rock solid! I will now need to make the dish installation permanent (new, stronger mast, guy wires, grounded properly) and run a forth cable all the way to my DPP44 in case I need to make a change in inclement weather. But at this point indications are good for continuing success with 129W!
So I FINALLY have my 4 LiL networks in HD (and I can get PBS quite well OTA). Couple that with the other 5 new HD channels we began receiving last week, and I am one happy camper!
I have pictures of the process but am having some difficulties getting them out of my Handycam. If I solve that problem I will post a couple...
Best to all and especially digiblur for his advice and encouragement through this process...!
Hi folks! I wanted to put some closure on this one. I made a "poor man's inclinometer" with a long level and a piece of cardboard cut with a 20 deg. angle taped to the top edge of the level. (My elevation to 129W is 20.3 deg. per Dishpointer.com.) I put a small table on the peak of my garage roof with the level on it close to the 129W wing location, aimed it to 253 deg. mag., leveled it, then sighted along the cardboard...and I was looking directly into trees about 8' below their tops. The cheap analog meter I bought confirmed the very weak and highly variable signal I was receiving from 129W in comparison to 61.5, and also helped confirm my elevation and bearing. (The audible indication in that meter is great as it was in-line some 15' from where I am adjusting the dish.)
I got a tree surgeon out last weekend and after about 4 hours of trimming...SUCCESS !!! (I'm not going to tell you how much that cost me!) We used my tool to confirm what needed to be trimmed and we were listening to the tone from that meter through the whole process. The improvements were minor until we took the whole top out of one particular red oak (I hated to do that, but we SatGuys have priorities!) and the signal took a huge jump, indicated by the deeper, steadier tone and pegged needle!
I went inside and did another checkswitch with 129W connected in place of 61.5 and it finally worked again. When I checked the signal meter in the Point Dish screen I was getting indicated levels of 50+ on many transponders, and nothing less than 40 for the rest of the actives. I'm comparing that with the no better than 15-18 and highly variable strength I was getting on 4-24 when the 129W wing was first installed. With that I could lock the sat., but I had some drop outs. Then the day after that when the leaves came out significantly I lost the signal altogether per the 211's meter.
I have been out of town since that day and have not had much chance to play with this and watch for any anomalies, but so far it seems rock solid! I will now need to make the dish installation permanent (new, stronger mast, guy wires, grounded properly) and run a forth cable all the way to my DPP44 in case I need to make a change in inclement weather. But at this point indications are good for continuing success with 129W!
So I FINALLY have my 4 LiL networks in HD (and I can get PBS quite well OTA). Couple that with the other 5 new HD channels we began receiving last week, and I am one happy camper!
I have pictures of the process but am having some difficulties getting them out of my Handycam. If I solve that problem I will post a couple...
Best to all and especially digiblur for his advice and encouragement through this process...!
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Congrats on your success in receiving 129. Persistence does pay off in the end. Too bad that you had to chop off the top of that red oak.
Tks! I was also just about to re-edit the above post to thank you again for reminding me about that I-adapter for the single LNB. Installing that also made a bit of a difference vs. the off-axis situation I had with the Y-adapter installed; with the Y we were looking in the wrong direction by about 5 deg. and that might have had me cutting the wrong trees! (The Dish tech certainly pointed to the wrong ones.)Congrats on your success in receiving 129. Persistence does pay off in the end. Too bad that you had to chop off the top of that red oak.
Perhaps that oak will make a comeback...and it would take it years to be tall enough to interfer again... but I don't think that one will survive. For most of the others, they were trimmed in a manner that they should survive. We did cut out most of one maple, but it was already diseased and would not have lasted much longer anyway, and one small tree was a victim of a top crashing into it. But otherwise I did not completely kill too much. And for those I did, they will help keep me warm this winter! And I have hundreds of good hardwood trees surrounding me, so a few won't be missed after long. Mother Nature has a way of taking care of herself.
If I lose the signal again due to regrowth I certainly know what I need to do to get it back!
Tks again all...
