Cable vs VOOM

[MrPorterhouse]

I have posted this elswhere, but since I know that I only regularly vist only a few sections on this board, I will also start a thread here so I can get more input.

HDTV Cable looks like my best option. I've really been tempted by VOOM, but I use Comcast Cable High Speed Internet and its significantly more expensive if I don't subscribe to Cable TV with them. In order for me to eat the extra internet charge, VOOM would have to be significantly better than Comcast so that the total value is worth the extra cash.

For me, (Cleveland area, North Ridgeville,OH to be exact)
Comcast offers HDTV service. $0 per month programming and $0 per month equipment rental. Only a one time charge of $39.99 setup fee. I am a current Digital Plus customer and pay about $56 per month, so for them to add HD programming for no monthly charge is awesome! Currently have about 10 HD channels(espn-hd is most important to me) and will be adding more as time goes on.

By staying with cable I am missing out on the digital quality SD cable channels(digital audio is important to me) and missing out on the VOOM HD exclusive channels(not important to me, but a good feature). It will be quite a while before Comcast goes digital on all cable networks. They are still sticking to the FCC mandate of 2006. So I will have to rely on Comcast adding the HD feeds of those same networks to get Digital quality audio and HD picture quality. (Example, ESPN is SD analog picture and analog audio, but ESPN-HD is all digital and High Definition when programming is availible) The bonus is that my A/V receiver(Pioneer Elite VSX-43tx) does an extremely good job at processing an analog 2-channel stereo audio source into a 6.1 channel audio surround sound experience.


I think my choice to stay with Comcast cable for HDTV service is obvious, especially since HD programmig will really ramp up towards fouth quarter 2004 and into 2005, and beyond.


Unless, of course, anyone can offer me suggestions or update me on anything that I may be missing regarding VOOM vs Comcast.

 

[mini1]

"It will be quite a while before Comcast goes digital on all cable networks. They are still sticking to the FCC mandate of 2006."
~what mandate? the FCC has NO mandate that includes cable's transisition to all digital at any point in time. this is entirly up to the cable companies, which could take 3 years or 20 years to finnish. they can broadcast analog for as long as they want and there is nothing the FCC can do about it or will do about it.
"$0 per month programming and $0 per month equipment rental"- I find this very hard to believe since this would be a direct violation of the contact between channels such as HDNET or INHD and Comcast-not to charge the subscriber anything. they charge for the STB, you just don't know it. its included in the monthly bill.
"Currently have about 10 HD channels"-you could have 39 plus all of locals that broadcast in HD with Voom. or you could tie that number with DirecTV or Dish. (I am not recomending Dish any way shape or form for HD)

 

[geoffe]

I am stuck with Comcast in the Los Angeles area as I am in transition to a new house being built and in a rental for three months. Comcast still does not have TNTHD. Also I would love to know how you got HD for $0. It costs here.
Oh, by the way, 5 of those HD channels are the locals here. Not really a heck of a lot of HD on Comcast.
When I move in September, it is Voom for me........that is if they are still in business.

 

[mini1]

just like I said, the most HD you can possibly get for free is your locals and double or condsidered double channels. you can't get the best HD channels for free on any system, unless you plan on stealing them.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

The mandate is for all over the air(free) networks to broadcst their programms in Digital. By law, Cable must carry locals(which will be digital by 2006). As far as the rest of the networks, in order to remain competitive, cable will have to go all digital, and probably most networks within five years will be in HD.

My Comcast level of service is Digital Plus which runs about $57/mo and includes expanded basic and the second level of digital and access to VOD and PPV. It does not include HBO or other premiums. And, yes, HDTV is at NO EXTRA CHARGE. I only paid a one time fee of $39.99 for the Install/startup. My monthly bill did NOT increase! I just signed up, so if this is in error, then I'm certainly not gonna point it out and hope I can ride it out at no increase in my bill for as long as I can.

The HD I get now is few, but quality. I get the locals, ESPN-HD, INHD, and INHD2. HBO-HD comes with a subscription to the HBO package, and its the same for the other premiums(Max, Show, Starz, etc...) The three most important to me are(NBC, ESPN, and FOX), which I get. I would much rather get the networks I want in HD, then just get hundreds of channels that I would never watch. For example, I probably get about 150 cable SD channels, but actually only watch about 15! The rest are a waste. Its the same with HD, at least for me. Its nice for a demo, or to wow your friends, but when all is said and done, I wouldn't watch those VOOM exclusives anyway, well a few I would, but not the majority. TNT-HD and Discovery-HD are the two VOOM channels that have some programming that I would enjoy(NBA playoffs and nature shows, etc...) So for me, its pretty much a wash. I might try out VOOM this summer if I feel the need. With the extended deadline, I've got some more time to think it over. DVD's look fantastic, so that is certainly a major portion of my viewing habits, as well as PS2, and just listening to SACD's or DVD-audio. So when there is something on HDTV that interests me, I'll flip it on. When there is nothing on HDTV, then I've got plenty to keep me busy.

 

[mini1]

"The mandate is for all over the air(free) networks to broadcst their programms in Digital. By law, Cable must carry locals(which will be digital by 2006). "
~yes you are correct, but as I said it does in no way directly effect cable. I have studied this issue myself and read the documents from the FCC. the locals could be broadcasting in digital, which the cableco receives, but then its modulated to analog for their customers which of 90% will still be using analog TV to view the content. this already happends, its nothing new or expensive. I also don't see the locals making the "deadline", there is little to no chance that it will happen on time, and guess what our "friends" at the FCC are going to do about it? Nothing-Absolutely Nothing at all! there are far too many terms and conditions for this mandate the actully take place. we will be lucky if it happends by 2009 at the pace we are moving at today.
"The HD I get now is few, but quality. I get the locals, ESPN-HD, INHD, and INHD2"
~so this all you get "free"? you must have billing error because I know that INHD can not be offered for free to cable customers, it says it right in the contract with comcast.
~and by the way, your NOT getting Fox in HD, if thats what you were trying to say. Fox doesn't broadcast in HD yet at all.

 

[Ken F]

For me, (Cleveland area, North Ridgeville,OH to be exact)
Comcast offers HDTV service. $0 per month programming and $0 per month equipment rental. Only a one time charge of $39.99 setup fee. I am a current Digital Plus customer and pay about $56 per month, so for them to add HD programming for no monthly charge is awesome! Currently have about 10 HD channels(espn-hd is most important to me) and will be adding more as time goes on.

Comcast wants $65/mo in my area for their Digital Classic package -- $25/mo more than VOOM. Cable franchising fees and taxes add an additional $8+/mo to the price. This package does not include any premium movie channels. A HD STB rental is an extra $5/mo. HBO is an extra $16/mo.

Comcast does offer InHD and InHD2. But they still don't offer Discovery HD, TNT-HD, Bravo HD, or the Hdnets. Nor do they offer HD PPV or HD VOD. Moreover, its been reported elsewhere that we're not likely to see much in the way of additional non-local HD on Comcast systems anytime soon.

My Comcast level of service is Digital Plus which runs about $57/mo and includes expanded basic and the second level of digital and access to VOD and PPV. It does not include HBO or other premiums. And, yes, HDTV is at NO EXTRA CHARGE.

They don't charge extra for HD channels. Instead, they increase your monthly bill every 4-6 months and include new additions with the increase. Given the higher price of the package, and the frequent price increases, I don't think it's really fair to say that you are getting these channels "free."

As far as NBC, CBS, and ABC in HD -- many of us already get that with an antenna on VOOM -- so there's no advantage there for Comcast. As mini said, FOX offers 16:9 480p programming, but no HD until September.

Comcast does have one significant advantage over VOOM in my area. They have their Comcast Sports Network in HD. Most of my area team's home games are offered in 1080i HD. I do expect VOOM to offer FOX Sportsnet feeds in HDTV on its new larger dish this fall. That said, I believe Comcast still transmits its CSN-HD feeds on fiber-only, which could keep them off VOOM.

I do have Comcast service with VOOM, but that's only because they a have HD DVR available for $9.95/mo extra plus $5/mo for HD capability. I use this DVR to record network content. With digital classic, HD DVR rental, franchise fees, and taxes, my monthly Comcast bill runs $85+/mo with zero premium movie channels -- close to what I paid for VaVaVoom with VOOM STB rental.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

When I say free, I mean that there is no additional charge for me to rent the HD box or receive their HD programming. I get billed for the Digital Classic level of service. Its the same price if I didn't get HD or use their HD box. I also have Cable High Speed internet. Total bill for the Digital Classic with HDTV service plus broadband internet plus all taxes comes to $101.84 for the current month. My bill looks like this:

Monthly Charge(s)
06/02 - 07/01 Standard Cable 41.69
Standard Cable Includes: Basic And Expanded Basic.
06/02 - 07/01 Digital Plus Pkg 14.95
06/02 - 07/01 CHSI With Cable 42.95
Subtotal 99.59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Taxes & Fee(s)
05/22 Video Franchise Fee 1.83
05/22 Video County Tax .04
05/22 Video State Tax .32
05/22 FCC Regulatory Fee .06
Subtotal 2.25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance Due $ 101.84

Yes, I get INHD and INHD2

Regarding FOX: Currently FOX does not broadcast in HD, like you said. But I do currently receive the Fox feed for its HD channel(480P). SO when Fox does broadcast a HD program, I'm all set up to get it. Therfore, that's why I said I get Fox-HD channel. Its up to Fox to provide the HD content.

"They don't charge extra for HD channels. Instead, they increase your monthly bill every 4-6 months and include new additions with the increase. Given the higher price of the package, and the frequent price increases, I don't think it's really fair to say that you are getting these channels "free.""

Well, I don't expect to get anything free. I expect to get a resonable amount of programming and quality service for the money I pay. If I get an increase in programming, I am willing to pay. I expect my cable bill to go up at least every 6 months. Especially right now with Comcast exceeding my expectations. Discovery-HD is in the works and won't be far away. That's the only HD channel that I don't currently get that I wish I did. Overall, the HD programs that exsist today that I would actually watch, I do get . So that means I'm highly satisfied with Comcast and its HD service as it exsists today. This will only improve as we look in third and fourth quarter 2004 and into 2005.

What I'm really missing with Comcast, as compared to VOOM, Dish, Direct Tv, is the digital audio from the SD digital broadcast. I love 5.1 surround or Dolby 6.1 EX when I can get it. I hear ya mini1. It will probably be awhile before all cable is broadcast in digital. However, the locals mirror thier analog feed with the Digital HD feed. Its the same content, just broadcast on a seperate channel. I really could care less if they don't drop the analog feed, so long as I can get the digital HD feed.

I do disagree with you on the fact that this change over will happen much more rapidly then you think. HD is exploding right now. It may not seem like it to us because we talk about it every day, and get the info as it comes out and very little changes from our perspective on a daily basis. However, if you step back and look at the big picture. HD has made a huge impact already in 2004. VOOM has stepped up and really made some noise. I've seen infomercials on Comcast for their HD service. With increased exposure to the general public(the majority of which probably don't even know what HD is), HD will become even more popular, then the latest trend. Once that happens, the consumer base that wants and demands HD will be there and the big companies that provide HD programming and manufacture HD equipment will be right there to snatch up their money. Its definetely a snowball effect, and will grow exponentially. Once that first little momentum has gathered(which just happened this year), it will get bigger, and then BAM, it will be everywhere, HUGE! I would expect bulk amounts of channels to go HD at once. Like right now, we get a new network here and there. It might be 6 months or more before I get TNT-HD. But it might also happen that I get like 10 new HD channels all at once. I don't know, I'm only trying to read the market demand and make my best guess. I hope that I'm at least 50% right. Either way, I'm a satisifed Comcast HD customer. I still get on Comcast regularly about increasing my HD channel lineup and let them know that its customers demand more. The only way to expect a company to respond is by letting them know whats important to you.

 

[Ken F]

I do disagree with you on the fact that this change over will happen much more rapidly then you think.

Comcast understands the importance of HDTV. However, most of their systems simply don't have capacity for lots of new HDTV channels (if any at all) until they move their analog channels over to digital. Comcast is expected to move the extended basic tier over to digital in the 2006-2007 timeframe, and that will free up capacity for dozens of HD channels. However, until they do that, many of their systems are bandwidth constrained.

Taxes & Fee(s)
05/22 Video Franchise Fee 1.83
05/22 Video County Tax .04
05/22 Video State Tax .32
05/22 FCC Regulatory Fee .06
Subtotal 2.25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance Due $ 101.84

In my area, the standard digital cable box is free with digital classic, but they charge about $5/mo extra for the HDTV box. Luckily, your area Comcast doesn't hit you with that fee. Or maybe they forgot about it...

That's nice that your taxes and franchise fees are so low. Mine are about 4x that amount, on top of higher programming rates (see attached).

 

[MrPorterhouse]

That's nice that your taxes and franchise fees are so low. Mine about 4x that amount, on top of higher programming rates.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is nice. That's why I remain a Comcast customer. Competition is fierce in my area so Comcast really stays competitve, which is great for me. I see a lot of Dish on my street. Also, a Comcast installer lives a few houses down from me, which is convienent if I need any quick troubleshooting.

 

[iceshark]

I have VOom and really enjoy the price and channel choice.
However. My comcast HD picture was much better then my Voom picture.
You should check out Voom forum to get and idea what other think.

My two cents.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

I've been there everyday. I go to other boards as well. Never can get enough info. Home theater can move quickly and I always try to stay updated.

 

[mini1]

"But I do currently receive the Fox feed for its HD channel(480P). "
~but its not the FOX HD channel. if no HD is shown on it, then is not in HD is it? it the FOX SD digital channel, and is broadcasts at the same rate than any digital cable channel does right at 480p. 480p is not HD.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

Yes, you are correct. It is not showing HD. Its showing 480P, just like you said. But this is the channel that is reserved for Fox-HD. It is called the Fox-HD channel. Just like ESPN-HD channel does not show all programming in HD, but you would still call that channel, the ESPN-HD channel. The Fox-SD channel is a completely different channel and ESPN-SD is a completely different channel. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[mini1]

but ESPN DOES show HD sometimes. FOX doesn't show anything in HD, not one minute.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

That's correct. No HD at all right now. But what would you call that channel? It is completely seperate from the FOX-SD channel.

Possible names if you don't call it FOX-HD:

The "FOX-that-currently-shows-enhanced-definition-and-will-in-the-future-show-HD" channel.

The "FOX-that-is-reserved-for-HD" channel.

Simply, The "FOX Enhanced Definition" Channel.

I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there. What do you think? I need to call it something and FOX-HD will be the name once they start broadcasting HD, so I just figured it would be easiest to call it FOX-HD now and not have to switch the name later, even though you might confuse newbies that would think because of the name that there would be HD programming on it right now, or by pure definition you can't call it something that it does not represent. OK, this is getting way deep.

 

[mini1]

it is the FOX SD digital station or FOX-SD. ok, we should now agree.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

Well, FOX-SD(analog) would be channel 8. Channel 211 would be something else, FOX-SD2 or FOX-SD(Digital)? It is grouped with the HD channels in the low 200's. The FOX-SD is grouped with the analog locals, Channels 3-8.

 

[MrPorterhouse]

Its Official. FOX is now HD. Its running at 720P. That would be channel 213 on Comcast Cable in North Ridgeville, OH, "FOX-HD".

 

[Ken F]

Its Official. FOX is now HD. Its running at 720P. That would be channel 213 on Comcast Cable in North Ridgeville, OH, "FOX-HD".

FOX is not HD anywhere. It's still 480p upconverted. FOX won't offer any actual HDTV programming until September.