Brit learning the american satellite way

[pedrogarcia]

I am a Brit, ex aerospace industry who now spends 6 months a year in Michigan and have been into European satellites for more years than I care to remember. I have to say I’ve actually re-learnt stuff I had forgotten since reading the really helpful sticky posts but I still have a few questions that might be interesting.
Circular polarization was something from the past reserved for weather satellites and ailing Russian spinning dustbins why is it still in use? I guess it does makes installation marginally easier as there is no skew.
Why is C band still in use or is it due to end sometime? I notice it even has HD and a better program spectrum
Why are there so many more FTA channels for the Spanish speaking population?
Why are the satellite bandwidths so small 0.5 GHZ , when European make full use of the 2GHZ Universal LNBs
I see Universal LNBs for sale in the US why? Do users recalculate the frequency inputs on their receivers for the LO differential?
thanks guys

 

[PALL MALL]

Circular polarization was something from the past reserved for weather satellites and ailing Russian spinning dustbins why is it still in use? I guess it does makes installation marginally easier as there is no skew.

Circular Polarization is used on high powered DBS satellites. Its used by companies like Dish Network, Direct Tv and Canadian provider Bell Vu Express. They use these satellites so the can provide more people with service and reducing the antenna size to "18. It reduces equipment costs of the providers so they can give you that free equipment.

Why is C band still in use or is it due to end sometime? I notice it even has HD and a better program spectrum

I dont beleive its due to end. Whats wrong with C-Band??Cable companies use C-Band to receive there programing. How would you like it if they used Ku and your cable went out in the heavy rain. All satellites regardless of Band can do HD. Not sure what you means by better program spectrum?

Why are there so many more FTA channels for the Spanish speaking population?

Because Mexico and alot of Spanish speaking countries are right below use. Also a huge number people living in the US speak spanish.

Why are the satellite bandwidths so small 0.5 GHZ , when European make full use of the 2GHZ Universal LNBs

You may be confused. The use of the microwave spectrum for satellite tv in the US does not use these low frequencies. C-band uses around 3.5Ghz to 5.8Ghz. Ku-Band is 10Ghz to 18Ghz, and Ka-Band is 27Ghz to 40Ghz.

I see Universal LNBs for sale in the US why? Do users recalculate the frequency inputs on their receivers for the LO differential?

There used to receive Circular and Linear Ku. Receivers are already pre-programed to use them.

Hope I Help, Someone please correct me if I have anything wrong.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Sorry my friend I think may have mislead you on a number of issues.
Circular polarisation is does not reduce the dish size, infact linear dishes in Europe are down to 50cms and smaller with sats using far less ERIP. You don't get free equipment you pay a fortune in subscriptions.

There is nothing wrong with C band, in fact it looks to have good programs but it's just that Ku and Ka is more ecomonical and require less transmit power.
It does seem undemocratic the amount of Spanish FTA as opposed to English FTA. (Sorry if that's political)
You misunderstood me when I said bandwidth. US tv frequency spread seems only 0.5GHZ (12.2-12.75GHZ or 11.7-12.2GHZ) as opposed to European 2GHZ (10.7-12.75GHZ)
Universal LNBs are linear although they will receive circular at about 50% signal strength. I see it is possible to get combination LNBs at a price in the States. Thanks for coming back to me.

Looks like I'm going to start with 97, 123, 125 Ku, and 127C

 

[toucan-man]

Pedrogarcia, do tell us more about FTA in Europe, about the programming, about whatever else you think might be of interest.

 

[stogie5150]

Sorry my friend I think may have mislead you on a number of issues.
Circular polarisation is does not reduce the dish size, infact linear dishes in Europe are down to 50cms and smaller with sats using far less ERIP. You don't get free equipment you pay a fortune in subscriptions.

There is nothing wrong with C band, in fact it looks to have good programs but it's just that Ku and Ka is more ecomonical and require less transmit power.
It does seem undemocratic the amount of Spanish FTA as opposed to English FTA. (Sorry if that's political)
You misunderstood me when I said bandwidth. US tv frequency spread seems only 0.5GHZ (12.2-12.75GHZ or 11.7-12.2GHZ) as opposed to European 2GHZ (10.7-12.75GHZ)
Universal LNBs are linear although they will receive circular at about 50% signal strength. I see it is possible to get combination LNBs at a price in the States. Thanks for coming back to me.

Looks like I'm going to start with 97, 123, 125 Ku, and 127C

IIRC our Ku sats here are MUCH lower powered that the Ku y'all used across the pond, the only satellites that are high powered are the DBS ones, thus the smaller dishes. The paid sat providers here in NA use multiple satellite reception on one small dish, I think circular polarization cuts down on cross interference or something...I remember there was a reason....LOL

C-band here is not really intended for mass market use. The varying weather across the US mandates the use of the larger signal that C-band provides, and even then some teleports for TV stations here use 5 meter dishes to ensure reliability in varying weather. Our Ku satellites just aren't powerful enough, for whatever reason, to serve the cable headends reliably.

In the early 1990's Americans got used to paying somebody for equipment/service, and, being that Americans in general are happy as long as the money is rolling in, no matter how bad they are getting screwed, that's the way it stayed, and remains that way today. I feel the price that is asked by ALL providers is CRIMINAL, whether it be cable OR satellite. The inablity of folks to say NO anymore is going to bankrupt us as a country.

How's that for political?

And the reason that so much Spanish programming is available is that you see it because its not scrambled. I assure you there is a LOT of english programming up there, but its all on the DBS companies' satellites, scrambled, and only accessible legally with their crapbox equipment, some of which works no better than our better FTA receivers.

I don't think we use Universal Ku LNB's here because we didn't need the bandwidth that y'all needed in Europe/UK.

I hope some of that made sense. But more folks will be along with better info than me, I've only been subscription free for a little over a year now, I have plenty to learn still.

 

[Lak7]

My personal opinion:
A big difference between FTA in the USA vs. FTA in the rest of the world, is that we (the end user) are not the intended target for the Sat signal. Almost everything up there is intended to be redistributed in subscription form, Cable TV or DBS Sat service.

 

[pedrogarcia]

EU v USA FTA

Pedrogarcia, do tell us more about FTA in Europe, about the programming, about whatever else you think might be of interest.

One of the major differences is that most european countries still have terrestial free broadcasting and these are migrating FTA to satellite as maintenance costs are far cheaper.
the major sat companies are SES Astra, Eutelsat and Intelsat and each of these sats have FTA channels which have generally broader footprints than the subscription packages of which there are many. the main UK subscription middleman is SKY and you are looking at around $120pm for the full package. You can imagine people are now cutting backon their packages galore and the SKY company have over 200 staff in their cancellation department alone.
These companies have been really greedy in the past and are beginning to feel the crunch. There are many smaller packages in English throughout europe around the $30 per month and Digiturk( in English) have a terrific package $100 per year. News channels are virtually all FTA.
The best FTA is undoubtedly the MBC and Fox channels all English (and American programs)on Arabsat 26east and Nilesat 7west. Fortunately I live in Cyprus Eastern mediteranian so I can receive it on a 50 cm dish (no rain fade either) and the UK 2500 miles away need a 1.2m dish where as for me to get SKY I need a 3.2m dish because of its footprint.
Card sharing with dreamboxes is quite popular and not illegal in most of Europe.

Currently I have 7e, 13e, 19e, 26e and 28e

 

[pedrogarcia]

EU v USA FTA

quote:IIRC our Ku sats here are MUCH lower powered that the Ku y'all used across the pond, the only satellites that are high powered are the DBS ones, thus the smaller dishes


Y'know it is difficult to find info on your sats but SES Astra 2D is one of those Boeing sorry Hughes spinning dustbins EIRP 39watts TWTA 98watts which has given terrific service in western Europe and I can still receive it on a 3m dish in Cyprus.

Most other Ku sats seem to have EIRP 150watts and total power consumption 7-9 KW. How does this compare?

 

[Wescopc]

FTA KU = 10-12 watts, DBS (Dish and DirecTV) = 120 watts.
Bob

 

[Cadsulfide]

Welcome! Setting up a system should be pretty easy for you. A dish & linear lnb, a reciever, and Bob's your Uncle! 123, 125, 97, and 101 have most stuff. If you have the space/time consider a big dish, way more goodies!

 

[nelson61]

I think the circular has to do with simplicity of installation. When you have multiple satellites on on antenna, you can use a fixed circular multiple lnb assembly and just skew the antenna to match the satellites (no polarity adjustment). If they were linear, each individual lnb would have to have an additional skew adjustment to optimize the polarity.

 

[SatPhreak]

Nelson, even if the sats were linear you wouldn't need to set each lnb's skew on a multisat dish. Skewing the dish would skew all the lnbs at the same time, unless AMC1 was being used as its skew is off. Starchoice is a good exaple of this, they use linear sats and a monoblock lnb for 2 sats and as the dish is skewed it aligns both sats in skew and elevation.

pedrogarcia, universals are sold here because they are needed if you want to get Intelsat 9 at 58W or a few other atlantic sats. Since they also cover the 11.7 to 12.2 range they can be used for all the other NA FTA sats.

 

[nelson61]

Nelson, even if the sats were linear you wouldn't need to set each lnb's skew on a multisat dish. Skewing the dish would skew all the lnbs at the same time, unless AMC1 was being used as its skew is off. Starchoice is a good exaple of this, they use linear sats and a monoblock lnb for 2 sats and as the dish is skewed it aligns both sats in skew and elevation.

pedrogarcia, universals are sold here because they are needed if you want to get Intelsat 9 at 58W or a few other atlantic sats. Since they also cover the 11.7 to 12.2 range they can be used for all the other NA FTA sats.

Understood. thanks

 

[Tron]

Another reason that universals are often used here is that a large percentage of FTA equipment sold here is created for use in Europe. In the States, we only use the Ku-high (10600 L.O.) frequency range of the LNBF, so 22k is turned on all of the time. Many FTAers in North America prefer to use standard LNBFs (L.O. 10750), which only receive Ku-high and do not require 22k to be on at all times. This frees up the 22k function of the receiver to be used for control of external 22k switches.

 

[jayelem]

Why are there so many more FTA channels for the Spanish speaking population ?

Imagine if all channels were left unencrypted , then we would have much more English channels than Spanish channels available .

I'm sure you're refering to what's available on both Ku and C-band , unless you have a Horizon to Horizon motor or 2 C-band dishes tracking eastern and western Satellites I would say most English speaking Satellite enthusiasts are not aiming their BUD at the Atlantic Sats .

I also don't think that most Satellite providers in Latin America are very worried about their domestic programming being seen elsewhere vs. Premium channels or Pay TV Packages which are available in Latin America Subscription packages , that of course could change some day.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Imagine if all channels were left unencrypted , then we would have much more English channels than Spanish channels available .

That would be great , I speak 3.5 languages (have not mastered Greek yet despite living here 8 years, its an age thing) but Spanish is not one.

One thing I have noticed is the increase in the number program intermissions and the number of adverts. PVRs is the only way to go.

Cadsulfide: I guess you are suggesting C band. Since I am relatively high , above the tree line, I have almost a 180 degree pan across the spectum. As I have the space and am starting from scratch it makes sense to have a combo C and Ku LNB and larger dish, any suggestions. I am not going to have a problem with herself as she is used to my 3m D&H prime focus here in Cyprus.

Satphreak: Interesting your skew comment, in Europe no-one skews dishes only the LNBs probably because the package suppliers are on single satellites due to the greater bandwith available. I have to say the 3 sat dish/direct design with monblock LNBs including DiSEqC is really clever and built for ease of instalation.

Another differential I noticed in Europe quality cable is copper foil shielded and braided not aluminium (sorry aluminum) at about $70 per 100m. Of course the install it free guys use rubbish cable to make an extra buck.
Our problem in Cyprus and UAE the outer PVC can becomes porous from the heat after about 4 years and is best changed.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Pedrogarcia;

My recommendation would be one dish dedicated to c band, and one to Ku Motorized), or set up an array for Ku....more dishes, but a lot less trouble to get up and running. Post an ad in the local paper that you are looking for old bigger dishes, they will rain upon you, reduces your costs considerably.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Thanks Cadsulfide, I will certainly post an ad for a BUD. I don't like motorised dishes so will probably have 2 or 3 Ku dishes. I use a Satlook Digital NIT for alignment so should be fairly easy.

 

[Cadsulfide]

Post some pix of your progress

 

[pedrogarcia]

Here's current set up in Cyprus, 3m dish on 28e and 19e, 1.5m on 13e 19e and 26e. and 2 x 90cm on 26 and 7e. The 3m is becoming marginal as Astra 2D is cutting back on transmission power to eek out its lifespan.
Back in Michigan this March currently boxing kit to bring over. Pity I can't pack dishes they are half price here.
Happy New Year to every one