Big Dish Boneyard

[linuxman]

I got a PM from Phlatwound a few days ago about an installer in Kansas City who had advertised some things that he wanted to get rid of in the KC Craig's list. (Thanks Phlatwound for the tip)

The way the ad read, everything must go. I was going over to Columbia today anyway, so I emailed the guy and after 3 or 4 emails, and 3 or 4 phone calls, I agreed to buy it all except for the 3 dishes. (The only dishes I am accepting now are Birdviews)

I had to leave early because I wanted to be back in Columbia by Noon.

Got over there at 8:30 AM, and we started talking and going through boxes etc., I paid him what I agreed to pay him, and we started loading up.

I will have a few pictures tomorrow, my family still has the camera in Columbia and won't be home until tomorrow afternoon.

Here's some of what I brought home.
3 - working GI 650Is with remotes, 2 in their original boxes
3 - NIB GI 350Is with remotes
1 - Motorola DSR-905 4DTV Sidecar in it's original box. (called NPS, and they said the Unit ID is convertible, whatever that means) Seems to be working fine. I am going to hook it up in a couple of days and get it authorized. The guy never even mentioned the 4DTV in his Craig's list ad. I almost fell over when he pulled that out. I could sell that, and get back all the money I paid him for just that one thing. It still cost me $100.00 worth of gas to get over there and back, but half of that trip can be charged off to personal use.

I got a Co-Rotor with the ADL patent infringing Ku probe just like the one I already have.
I got a Co-Rotor that was manufactured prior to the Co-Rotor above. Very different in the mouth and where the Ku LNB mounts.

2 - M/ACOM Dual C-Band feed-horns
1 - Dual Ku-Band feed-horn off a commercial dish
1 - C-Band HTS C-Band LNBF

An assortment of reed-sensor switches for Birdviews and other dishes, plus a 20 magnet wheel for a Birdview.

At least 6 working 24" Saginaw actuators. He says they work. I will have to test them, and I am assuming they are 24 inch. The tube measures 27", so I don't think they are 18 inchers.

Just a couple of low enough degree C-Band LNBs that I can use them.

A whole huge box of LNAs and down converters which I will scrap.

One of the most important things I got which I will post pictures of in the flip the servo thread are half a dozen of working servo testers, three of them are the kind that has the switch to change polarity and a roller knob to adjust the skew. Now we have some technology to copy from in making a new one.

All kinds of C-Band polarotors new in the box, and tons of other stuff plus two fringe area Winegard OTA antennas new in the box.

All in all, I would say it was worth the trip.

Thank you again Phlatwound! :

 

[phlatwound]

You're more than welcome, I'm glad that deal worked out for you.

Sounds like you got some good stuff!

 

[Anole]

quite the haul !

I had the pleasure of chatting with Linuxman when he was on the way home with his latest haul.
We ran out of time before I heard the entire list -

Save me a 24" mover. I think you've run out of things to motorize on your roof!

Ya know, this camera problem has come up before.
Do I have to send you one of your own?
I know you got yourself an 8" LCD/DVD-player so you no longer have to steal from the kids.

I got a Co-Rotor with the ADL patent infringing Ku probe just like the one I already have.
I got a Co-Rotor that was manufactured prior to the Co-Rotor above.
Very different in the mouth and where the Ku LNB mounts.

Congrats on the first!
Photos of the second. Wonder how that one performs?
Well, you'll be the man, all set up to test 'em! wow.

2 - M/ACOM Dual C-Band feed-horns
1 - Dual Ku-Band feed-horn off a commercial dish
1 - C-Band HTS C-Band LNBF

Not sure what all these are. Do tell.
Are they interesting enough for a picture?

An assortment of reed-sensor switches for Birdviews and other dishes, plus a 20 magnet wheel for a Birdview.

Now we're talkin' ! - :up
I know where all these'll go !
More power to ya, bud.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Phlatwound!

It was a good deal.

Save me a 24" mover. I think you've run out of things to motorize on your roof!

Yes Anole, I really don't have a lot of use for more actuators since beginning to move everything to H-H mounts.

Congrats on the first!
Photos of the second. Wonder how that one performs?

Thanks!
I am interested in how this one performs too. It could go either way. There is always a reason why there is a major design change. For instance why would they infringe on a patent if what they had performed well?

Not sure what all these are. Do tell.
Are they interesting enough for a picture?

They are interesting, and well worth pictures. The HTS LNBF is a 35 degree LNB, but if it works, who cares?

Now we're talkin' ! -
I know where all these'll go !

Yes, I have a spot all picked out for these.

BTW, If you want to send me a free camera, I'll take it with no questions asked.

 

[linuxman]

It's raining here again, and I had a little time to take a couple of pictures of some of the stuff I got from the KC installer.

Here are some of the LNBs that came in the deal. These are some of the ones I might keep for my own use or for sale later. I have several boxes of older ones like the MA/Com in the one picture. I have already scrapped 4 of those, but this one was in the box, so I kept it for now.

I have also scrapped and will scrap all kinds of LNAs down converters, and things that I don't even know what they are.

Also the DX item on the far right. Don't know what that is either except it says LNB at 2.5db 1.800 Ghz. Must be an old Ku LNB.

The Norsat new in the box is 45K. Doesn't show up very well in the picture. The dark one on the left is an HTS LNB.

Help me decide what I should keep.



EDIT: I forgot to mention, I got a NIB Eagle Aspen 17K C-Band LNB, and a NIB Norsat 1.5db Ku LNB. That's a pretty high temp for Ku, but I may try it out someday.

 

[linuxman]

Next up are pictures of the three different models of Co-Rotors that Chaparral manufactured. I got the first two from the KC installer. I already have several of the Co-Rotor IIs.

They are from left to right. I included 2 shots of the inside of the pre-original.

A pre-original Co-Rotor (or commercial Co-Rotor?, the ADL patent infringing Co-Rotor (I now have two of those), and the modern Co-Rotor II.



There are many differences between the pre/commercial and the original Co-Rotor. The ring you see at the mouth is removeable. Has allan screws around the sides. The top is also removeable. There are no markings for F/D on the sides, but it is adjustable. There are plastic triple strands running to the sides of the mouth.

Maybe Mike Kohl or some of the other long time dealers/installers will jump in here to help identify this one.

Finally look at the difference in the size of the caps. I am looking forward to trying that one out and see if it is better or worse than the original Co-Rotor.

 

[linuxman]

I got 2 - MA/Com dual C-Band feed-horns. Installer said they were commercial type feed-horns. I thought it was interesting they have no more scalar rings than what you see, and what is there only has 3 holes. Perhaps from an off-set dish? Adjustable F/D setting.

I got 1 - Atlantic Microwave dual Ku feed-horn. What you see is what I got. Installer said it came off a commercial dish too.

I got one HTS C-Band voltage controlled LNBF.

Here are the pictures.

 

[ACRadio]

I got 2 - MA/Com dual C-Band feed-horns. Installer said they were commercial type feed-horns. I thought it was interesting they have no more scalar rings than what you see, and what is there only has 3 holes. Perhaps from an off-set dish? Adjustable F/D setting.

I got 1 - Atlantic Microwave dual Ku feed-horn. What you see is what I got. Installer said it came off a commercial dish too.

I got one HTS C-Band voltage controlled LNBF.

MA/Com made a dish in the early 80's called a Black Widow...HH drive using a Saginaw motor. It had a very skinny feed cover that enclosed the entire feed and LNA(B). It didn't use any scalar plate at all...the feed throat mounted on a clamp inside the feed cover.

 

[voomvoom]

Help me decide what I should keep.

Keep it all Fred....!!!

 

[rv1pop]

If I got that treasure trove, I would keep it all. At least until I could fully test and condemn the pieces.... But then my storage area is bigger that most. I like to have all the parts I will ever need. -- Does anyone need GTE-Lenkurk E&M or DID cards?????

 

[linuxman]

MA/Com made a dish in the early 80's called a Black Widow...HH drive using a Saginaw motor. It had a very skinny feed cover that enclosed the entire feed and LNA(B). It didn't use any scalar plate at all...the feed throat mounted on a clamp inside the feed cover.

I have got to get me a C-Band dish setup on the ground close to the front of my building to test some of this stuff out. Running up two ladders and disturbing one of my functioning systems is a little too much trouble to be testing this amount of stuff.

If I understood correctly from your thread Taking a trip down memory lane,

Sure, it could lock a lot of them. The difficulty would be finding a block downconverter that didn't drift all over the place. An LNA is just a broadband amplifier...it does the microwave amplification. The critical component is the downconverter...that's where the stability for digital signals is needed.

and

Well picture quality is more of a function of bandwidth as opposed to frequency. The receiver (whether it be analog or digital) doesn't know the difference, as it is only able to tune L band. And since both C and KU signals are downconverted to L band, the receiver just plays whatever it is given.

it might be possible for some of these LNBs even though they are older and higher temps, could be of better quality and perform as well or better than some of the newer ones being manufactured?

Thanks Al and Pop!

I probably will keep a lot of it, but some of it is just so old the technology isn't even used any more.

In the Flip the servo thread someone posted about a little box that would work the servo motor.

I got several of those and 3 or 4 different kinds in the boxes of this treasure.

Some have a toggle to flip the servo with a wheel to adjust skew, some are just knobs to adjust skew and if turned far enough will change polarity, and one that is just a toggle switch to change polarity.

Here are the pics. I will also post this in the flip the servo thread.

 

[ACRadio]

it might be possible for some of these LNBs even though they are older and higher temps, could be of better quality and perform as well or better than some of the newer ones being manufactured?

There are 2 very important factors in determining the quality of an LNB...gain in the microwave amplification section and stability of the down converter. Noise factor is important but not as important as the two "biggies". The reason I say this is that in today's LNB's the noise factor is often hyped up and outright lied about to try and gain market share. The spec absolutely cannot be trusted as a lone determining factor in LNB quality.

There have been major improvements in semiconductor quality in recent years, but sometimes this has been at the expense of longetivity. They work well for 2 or 3 years but eventually fail. We see this in our disposible TV's, radios, boom boxes, CD players, etc. LNB's made during the late 80's and 90's in my opinion were some of the toughest boogers ever made, and had good gain and decent noise factors. But the problem lies in the downconverter stability because at that time we didn't have to worry about drifting 2 or 3 Mhz while looking at a 36 Mhz wide analog signal. In todays world with digital signals being the norm it makes a big difference with a 3 Mhz drift when the signal could be only 3 Mhz wide to start with. So while some of the better quality LNB's of yesteryear would probably work decently with a fat "whole transponder" signal, they would pose a problem with the skinnier signals we sometimes have to deal with.

 

[linuxman]

There are 2 very important factors in determining the quality of an LNB...gain in the microwave amplification section and stability of the down converter. Noise factor is important but not as important as the two "biggies". The reason I say this is that in today's LNB's the noise factor is often hyped up and outright lied about to try and gain market share. The spec absolutely cannot be trusted as a lone determining factor in LNB quality.

There have been major improvements in semiconductor quality in recent years, but sometimes this has been at the expense of longetivity. They work well for 2 or 3 years but eventually fail. We see this in our disposible TV's, radios, boom boxes, CD players, etc. LNB's made during the late 80's and 90's in my opinion were some of the toughest boogers ever made, and had good gain and decent noise factors. But the problem lies in the downconverter stability because at that time we didn't have to worry about drifting 2 or 3 Mhz while looking at a 36 Mhz wide analog signal. In todays world with digital signals being the norm it makes a big difference with a 3 Mhz drift when the signal could be only 3 Mhz wide to start with. So while some of the better quality LNB's of yesteryear would probably work decently with a fat "whole transponder" signal, they would pose a problem with the skinnier signals we sometimes have to deal with.

Thanks Guy!

That was a clear and lucid explanation of what the Low Stability factor is used for and why there is so much hype about it.

The only way to really know if some of the "yesteryear" technology will work well is to try it.

Part of the reason I have become interested in using some of the older stuff is because while tuning in my Bullseye II a few days ago, I had a Chaparral 20K on the Horizontal side with a 25K Cal-Amp mini-mag on the Vertical side. The Horizontals seemed to be under-performing especially on the G3 Equity Mux. I had good signal quality but a lot of pixelization. I swapped out the Chaparral with a 25K Cal-Amp mini-mag just like the Vertical side, and the problem cleared up instantly. The Chaparral is only a year and a half old. Both Cal-Amps are used and who knows how old.

 

[ACRadio]

Part of the reason I have become interested in using some of the older stuff is because while tuning in my Bullseye II a few days ago, I had a Chaparral 20K on the Horizontal side with a 25K Cal-Amp mini-mag on the Vertical side. The Horizontals seemed to be under-performing especially on the G3 Equity Mux. I had good signal quality but a lot of pixelization. I swapped out the Chaparral with a 25K Cal-Amp mini-mag just like the Vertical side, and the problem cleared up instantly. The Chaparral is only a year and a half old. Both Cal-Amps are used and who knows how old.

That is an indication of who makes their amplifiers in-house and who sublets their contracts to most likely some of the same manufacturers as the el cheapo LNB makers. Cal Amp and Norsat are as good as they come. I wish someone would make a KU LNBF with good specs. I am using Invacom C120 flange LNB's right now on the 1.2 meter dishes as well as one of the 2.4 meter primes. They are pretty good but the stability could be better.

 

[linuxman]

That is an indication of who makes their amplifiers in-house and who sublets their contracts to most likely some of the same manufacturers as the el cheapo LNB makers. Cal Amp and Norsat are as good as they come. I wish someone would make a KU LNBF with good specs. I am using Invacom C120 flange LNB's right now on the 1.2 meter dishes as well as one of the 2.4 meter primes. They are pretty good but the stability could be better.

I have an old Cal-Amp .6db LNB on my 4DTV setup, and it is the best Ku LNB that I have ever found.

I have looked on Ebay from time to time, but just can't seem to find one, and I don't think Cal-Amp a Ku LNB any more.

 

[ACRadio]

I have an old Cal-Amp .6db LNB on my 4DTV setup, and it is the best Ku LNB that I have ever found.

I have looked on Ebay from time to time, but just can't seem to find one, and I don't think Cal-Amp a Ku LNB any more.

If you like that Cal Amp then take a look at a Norsat 4506...they're hard to beat for the money...

 

[voomvoom]

I don't think Cal-Amp a Ku LNB any more.

Look here:
http://www.sepatriot.com/rf.htm
and click on LNB's
or here:
LNBs - Patriot Antenna Systems

 

[linuxman]

Holy Cow!!!

Those are all much higher priced than anything I have ever bought.

No wonder the Cal-Amp Ku LNB is so good. Look at what they cost.

I could easily spend $2000.00 if I put those on every Big Dish I own.

I guess I'll just have to live with what I can find or buy for less money.

 

[voomvoom]

Look at those Stability ratings (to me that's the deciding factor), the El-Cheapo's hardly ever post these ratings. I'm sure they would be ashamed with their's...?
But Fred, for those of us who can hardly afford to drive anywhere anymore, I know exactly what you mean.... Holy Cow...!!!

Also, in the Patriot line, they have KA-Band lnb's. I want one of these so bad, I can't stand it. Would love to see what I could get with one...??

 

[linuxman]

But Fred, for those of us who can hardly afford to drive anywhere anymore, I know exactly what you mean.... Holy Cow...!!!

That's exactly why I spend so much time scavenging the countryside looking for dishes, installers, used equipment etc. I can pay a few bucks for gas when the rewards are so great.

I can either swap something, or sell it to have a few dollars to spend on equipment I need or want. At this point I am just trying to be self-sustaining in my hobby, er I mean habit, er addiction.

I just need to find an ex-installer with a bunch of old, but not obsolete Ku and C-Band LNBs.