Beginner to FTA

[aristotle73]

Hello. I picked up an old BUD this week in hopes of using it to pick up FTA sturff. However, I am not very familiar with some of the terminology and equipment needed for Ku band. My BUD has an azel mount (although it can easily be moved around by lifting the mount itself and turning it) which is most likely going to be moved around by hand. I'm not sure what LNBf I should get for this dish as I am ignorant of what some of the types mean and how they influence signal.

1. Universal LNBf vs. Non-Universal: What's the difference?

2. The .# dB: What does this mean in regards to the LNBf itself? What does the dB measurement tell about the LNBf?

3. When I go to install the new LNBf, will I need to turn the LNBf to match the satellites' skew? If so, how many degrees?

Also, a little off topic as it isn't about LNB(f)s but yesterday the wind blew my dish over onto its front (so weight was being put on the arm). As a result, the LNA and the BDC which connected to it are now busted (which is ok as they weren't working...but now they aren't salvagable). Should I be concerned about the arm being bent or the dish getting a little warped? What should I put on the mount to keep it from falling over (I was thinking cement blocks)?

Extra info: The dish is old but in pretty good shape. In fact, the polar rotor had a sticker on it saying "May 1985". It used to be a C-Band dish and is approximately 1.4 meters in diameter. The receiver I plan to use is the KWorld DVB-S 100 PCI card. The LNBf I am looking at is the ASC-321 as it is cheap and I am broke.

Any advice, wisdom and/or suggestions are welcomed.

Thx

 

[PSB]

Welcome to the SatelliteGuys.US FTA forum!
1/ You will need a C-Band LNBF, the ASC-421 is a low cost quality LNBF!
2/ The lower the dB level usually means it will work better picking up weaker signals, but it also depends on the quality of the LNBF
3/ If set up correctly you aim the dish at your true south satellite then as it travels across the arc the dish dips and tilts setting its own skew. If you use it as a fixed dish the LNBF will need to be skewed.
Give us your zip code and we can give you all the angles to the satellites in your area, including skew!
You will also need a KU LNBF if you want to pick up 90% of the FTA out there! There are combined C/KU LNB's but they are costly, here is another option!
http://cgi.ebay.com/LNBF-C-Ku-unive...ameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

 

[PSB]

Forgot to add the difference between a Standard KU LNBF and a Universal LNBF.
A Universal LNBF covers two bands, this is controlled by a 22KHz tone. There is no real need for a Universal LNBF in this country. The only extra channel that you would get would be Cubavision and even that is now available on another satellite when using a Standard LNBF.
Main thing to watch out for is the L.O. setting on your receiver depending on what LNBF you are using.
Standard KU. 10750
Universal KU 9750-10600
(C-Band 5150)

 

[aristotle73]

Ok, thanks That helps alot! My zip is 21702

Why would I need a C-Band feedhorn if I want to view the channels in the Ku band? Also, since the dish did fall over, should I be worried about any warping or anything?

Hmmm...the dish is so old that I can't even find a picture of it on google. It's an old Winegard mesh dish. The arm itself is a sturdy bar that comes out from the center of the dish with the feedhorn attached to the top of it. I hope this doesn't mean I can't get FTA on Ku I have a feeling it does...

The arm looks sort of like the one in this picture but the dish is different looking: Arm.

Also, do the panels have to align evenly? Some edges seem higher than their adjacent counterpart

 

[PSB]

You are right, no need for C-Band LNBF if you just want KU. Depending on the size of the holes it should work fine for KU. (As long as a pencil does not fall through the holes its good for KU)

Yes you want to get all the panels as even as you can to catch as much signal as possible.

Fort Detrick, MD 21702
Latitude 39° 26.190'N Longitude 77° 26.844'W

              Sat Name Sat Lng Az(t) Az(m)   El  Skew
-----------------------------------------------------
 *** DBS SATELLITE ***
                      
         EchoStar 3/R1   61.5W 155.8 167.2 41.4 -18.5
          EchoStar 6/8  110.0W 225.1 236.5 33.4  33.2
            EchoStar 7  119.0W 234.4 245.7 27.6  38.9
            EchoStar 5  129.0W 243.2 254.6 20.6  43.6
          EchoStar 1/2  148.0W 257.4 268.7  6.3  48.9
                      
               Nimiq 2   82.0W 187.1 198.5 44.1   5.5
             Nimiq 1/3   91.0W 200.8 212.2 42.2  15.9
                      
       DirecTV 1R/4S/8  101.0W 214.5 225.8 38.2  25.9
             DirecTV 5  110.0W 225.1 236.5 33.4  33.2
            DirecTV 7S  119.0W 234.4 245.7 27.6  38.9
                      
                      
                      
*** All Satellites 24W - 148W ***
                      
          Intelsat 905   24.5W 115.6 127.0 19.5 -44.1
          Intelsat 907   27.5W 118.1 129.5 21.7 -42.9
         Hispasat 1C/D   30.0W 120.2 131.6 23.5 -41.8
          Intelsat 801   31.5W 121.6 132.9 24.6 -41.1
          Intelsat 903   34.5W 124.3 135.7 26.7 -39.6
           AMC 12/T 11   37.5W 127.2 138.6 28.7 -38.0
               NSS 806   40.5W 130.2 141.6 30.6 -36.2
             Pas 3R/6B   43.0W 132.8 144.2 32.2 -34.5
                Pas 1R   45.0W 135.0 146.3 33.4 -33.1
          Intelsat 705   50.0W 140.7 152.1 36.3 -29.3
          Intelsat 707   53.0W 144.4 155.8 37.8 -26.7
          Intelsat 805   55.5W 147.6 159.0 39.0 -24.4
                 Pas 9   58.0W 150.9 162.3 40.1 -22.0
              Amazonas   61.0W 155.1 166.4 41.3 -19.0
            EchoStar 3   61.5W 155.8 167.2 41.4 -18.5
             Rainbow 1   61.5W 155.8 167.2 41.4 -18.5
              Nahuel 1   71.8W 171.2 182.5 44.0  -6.8
             DirecTV 1   72.5W 172.2 183.6 44.1  -6.0
                 AMC 6   72.0W 171.5 182.8 44.0  -6.6
             Galaxy 12   74.0W 174.6 186.0 44.2  -4.2
                 SBS 6   74.0W 174.6 186.0 44.2  -4.2
               GOES 12   75.0W 176.2 187.5 44.3  -3.0
                 AMC 5   79.0W 182.4 193.8 44.3   1.9
             DirecTV 3   81.8W 186.8 198.2 44.1   5.3
               Nimiq 2   82.0W 187.1 198.5 44.1   5.5
          Brasilsat B3   84.0W 190.2 201.6 43.8   7.9
              AMC 2/16   85.0W 191.8 203.2 43.7   9.1
                 AMC 3   87.0W 194.8 206.2 43.3  11.4
                  IA-8   89.0W 197.8 209.2 42.8  13.7
             Galaxy 11   91.0W 200.8 212.2 42.2  15.9
             Nimiq 1/3   91.0W 200.8 212.2 42.2  15.9
          Brasilsat B4   92.0W 202.2 213.6 41.9  17.0
             Telstar 6   93.0W 203.7 215.0 41.6  18.1
             Galaxy 3C   95.0W 206.5 217.8 40.9  20.1
             Telstar 5   97.0W 209.2 220.6 40.1  22.1
             Galaxy 4R   99.0W 211.9 223.2 39.2  24.1
       DirecTV 1R/4S/8  101.0W 214.5 225.8 38.2  25.9
                 AMC 4  101.0W 214.5 225.8 38.2  25.9
            Spaceway 1  102.0W 215.7 227.1 37.8  26.8
                 AMC 1  103.0W 217.0 228.3 37.3  27.7
                AMC 15  105.0W 219.4 230.8 36.2  29.4
           Anik F1/F1R  107.3W 222.1 233.5 34.9  31.2
             DirecTV 6  109.5W 224.6 236.0 33.7  32.8
            EchoStar 6  110.0W 225.1 236.5 33.4  33.2
            EchoStar 8  110.0W 225.1 236.5 33.4  33.2
               Anik F2  111.1W 226.3 237.7 32.7  34.0
         Solidaridad 2  113.0W 228.4 239.7 31.5  35.3
              SatMex 5  116.8W 232.2 243.6 29.1  37.6
             DirecTV 5  119.0W 234.4 245.7 27.6  38.9
            EchoStar 7  119.0W 234.4 245.7 27.6  38.9
 EchoStar 9/Telstar 13  121.0W 236.3 247.6 26.2  40.0
            Galaxy 10R  123.0W 238.1 249.4 24.9  41.0
             Galaxy 12  125.0W 239.8 251.2 23.4  41.9
         Galaxy 13/H 1  127.0W 241.6 252.9 22.0  42.8
  Telstar 7/Echostar 5  129.0W 243.2 254.6 20.6  43.6
                AMC 11  131.0W 244.9 256.2 19.1  44.4
             Galaxy 1R  133.0W 246.5 257.8 17.6  45.1
                AMC 10  135.0W 248.0 259.4 16.1  45.7
                 AMC 7  137.0W 249.5 260.9 14.6  46.3
                 AMC 8  139.0W 251.0 262.4 13.1  46.9
            EchoStar 1  148.0W 257.4 268.7  6.3  48.9
            EchoStar 2  148.0W 257.4 268.7  6.3  48.9
                      
  www.SatelliteGuys.US
                      
***Free To Air Forum***

Satellite Finder is (c) Copyright 2004, P. Lutus

 

[gizzer777]

Your BUD Dish

Ok, thanks That helps alot! My zip is 21702
Why would I need a C-Band feedhorn if I want to view the channels in the Ku band? Also, since the dish did fall over, should I be worried about any warping or anything?
Hmmm...the dish is so old that I can't even find a picture of it on google. It's an old Winegard mesh dish. The arm itself is a sturdy bar that comes out from the center of the dish with the feedhorn attached to the top of it. I hope this doesn't mean I can't get FTA on Ku I have a feeling it does...
The arm looks sort of like the one in this picture but the dish is different looking: Arm.
Also, do the panels have to align evenly? Some edges seem higher than their adjacent counterpart

Hi there and welcome to FTA . I use an 8 ft C/KU Bud as well (dedicated system is waiting for better weather) Mine is a 25 yr old Winegard.... STILL STRONG!!!
What type (mesh, fiberglass, perforated aluminum?)and brand is your BUD?
I used my 4dtv BUD to check out FTA (bought an FTA Viewsat extreme) and once I found out more, I bought a dedicated Winegard 31" setup w/ motor and .3D lnb...can't wait to set it up!
I really think you will enjoy FTA...there is some great and informative programs from the planet up there (Really got bitten by this bug!)

 

[ken2400]

Can you send us a picture? I think we could tell you what shape this dish is in.

Thanks

Ok, thanks That helps alot! My zip is 21702
Why would I need a C-Band feedhorn if I want to view the channels in the Ku band? Also, since the dish did fall over, should I be worried about any warping or anything?
Hmmm...the dish is so old that I can't even find a picture of it on google. It's an old Winegard mesh dish. The arm itself is a sturdy bar that comes out from the center of the dish with the feedhorn attached to the top of it. I hope this doesn't mean I can't get FTA on Ku I have a feeling it does...
The arm looks sort of like the one in this picture but the dish is different looking: Arm.
Also, do the panels have to align evenly? Some edges seem higher than their adjacent counterpart

 

[gizzer777]

Damage

Hello. I picked up an old BUD this week in hopes of using it to pick up FTA sturff. However, I am not very familiar with some of the terminology and equipment needed for Ku band. My BUD has an azel mount (although it can easily be moved around by lifting the mount itself and turning it) which is most likely going to be moved around by hand. I'm not sure what LNBf I should get for this dish as I am ignorant of what some of the types mean and how they influence signal.
1. Universal LNBf vs. Non-Universal: What's the difference?
2. The .# dB: What does this mean in regards to the LNBf itself? What does the dB measurement tell about the LNBf?
3. When I go to install the new LNBf, will I need to turn the LNBf to match the satellites' skew? If so, how many degrees?
Also, a little off topic as it isn't about LNB(f)s but yesterday the wind blew my dish over onto its front (so weight was being put on the arm). As a result, the LNA and the BDC which connected to it are now busted (which is ok as they weren't working...but now they aren't salvagable). Should I be concerned about the arm being bent or the dish getting a little warped? What should I put on the mount to keep it from falling over (I was thinking cement blocks)?
Extra info: The dish is old but in pretty good shape. In fact, the polar rotor had a sticker on it saying "May 1985". It used to be a C-Band dish and is approximately 1.4 meters in diameter. The receiver I plan to use is the KWorld DVB-S 100 PCI card. The LNBf I am looking at is the ASC-321 as it is cheap and I am broke.
Any advice, wisdom and/or suggestions are welcomed.
Thx

it is very critical that the actuator arm provide a smooth arc motion for the dish, I just picked up a Superjack II 24" for 109 .

Also it is critical that the distance between the feedhorn and the center of the dish be set to manufacturer's spec. There is a rather complicated formula to figure this out (Focal Length) It is also critical that the center of the Feedhorn aim directly to the center of the dish (am not aware of offset BUDS but ther maybe some)..There are some great links in the C-band forum Faq for you on installation that do a much better job than I do explaining!

Does your Winegard look like mine below? If so, it is not mesh but Perforated aluminum (round holes) and it is a great BUD

regards
jeff

 

[PSB]

WOW! That is one nice looking dish Jeff!

 

[gizzer777]

Thanks Pete

WOW! That is one nice looking dish Jeff!

THAT IS A BIG compliment coming from you.

I actually bought it new and moved it ftom a previous home 15 yrs ago, and have only upgarded the LNB and C-rotor for KU (about 10 yrs ago!) Tried internet from Hug*** and was underwhelmed plus it was expensive ! Now 10 yrs later, the investment is paying off in FTA!!! Fantastic!

Got to come up with some fiberglass screening to keep the wasps out of the feedhorn cover this summer! You have no idea how hard I looked for their home in the evenings as they buzzed me daily in the summer heat (and went after the dogs)in the back yard...never even thought about that cover on the feedhorn! When my servo motor went out a week or so ago...there were the nests!! HUGE at that (and I thought my LNB's were going south!)

Will take another photo when the 31 " Winegard is installed on the house right behind the Bud and put it in the Pic forum!

Happy New Year!
Jeff

 

[gizzer777]

Thanks Pete

WOW! That is one nice looking dish Jeff!

THAT IS A BIG compliment coming from you.

I actually bought it new and moved it ftom a previous home 15 yrs ago, and have only upgraded the LNB and C-rotor for KU (about 10 yrs ago!) Tried internet from Hug*** and was underwhelmed plus it was expensive ! Now 10 yrs later, the investment is paying off in FTA!!! Fantastic!

Got to come up with some fiberglass screening to keep the wasps out of the feedhorn cover this summer! You have no idea how hard I looked for their home in the evenings as they buzzed me daily in the summer heat (and went after the dogs)in the back yard...never even thought about that cover on the feedhorn! When my servo motor went out a week or so ago...there were the nests!! HUGE at that (and I thought my LNB's were going south!)

Winegard is a prime example of getting what you pay for!!! ( I think you said that!)

Will take another photo when the 31 " Winegard is installed on the house right behind the Bud and put it in the Pic forum!

Happy New Year!
Jeff

 

[aristotle73]

Mine does look kind of like that 0_o The dish has a bit of a darker color although it does match the description you gave (aluminum with small round holes). The arm in your pic though is upside down compared to how the one on my dish is.

Does one panel seem slightly higher compared to one adjacent panel while seeming lower to the panel opposite the initial adjacent one?....I hope that question made sense, lol.

I'll have to get my camera out and post some pictures of the dish. That should better explain my questions (and maybe answer a few everyone had).

Do I need a feedhorn cover if I am just going to put in a Ku LNBf, or is there another reason why I should have one?

I'm really looking forward to getting this dish up and working! It's just too exciting to think what signals are floating around out there!

Thx

 

[PSB]

You need a feedhorn cover as the wasps need someplace to live

But as long as your connections are good there is no real need, its just to keep the worst of the weather off the LNBF!

 

[gizzer777]

If I remember,I mounted it this way due to where the drain hole is on the back of the motor. I will have a look and see whether I can reverse that cover and if so will install my new Superjack upside down like yours!!! The drain hole is the important thing...water cannot drain UP!!! <grin>

NOW...if your Winegard is a Perf Aluminum with the round holes, you can look forward to excellent performance when you have it dialed in!! The Perf aluminum dish I have has withstood a rather large number of 80mph windstorms, 6 ft snow storms ( I always broom it out several times during the storms to avoid warping due to weight!) etc during its life. Winegard has my vote for quality products! People up at Lake Tahoe with BUDS have these covers on their BUDS that allow reception, but keeps the snow from piling up in the dish! (yeah, like a HUGE deep dish Pizza!...<grin>)

Additionally the perf aluminum usually can due very well on KU band when tuned and a good ku lnb is in place!. My Norstat .6 KU LNB is also over 10 yrs old and strong as ever!

To be honest I had no idea they made a smaller version than my 8 footer back then,,,,

 

[gizzer777]

Ouch....Wasps and feedhorn Covers

You need a feedhorn cover as the wasps need someplace to live
But as long as your connections are good there is no real need, its just to keep the worst of the weather off the LNBF!

Can you imagine what a mess I would have been, had I taken the cover off in summer with those huge wasp nests fully inhabited...Guess i got lucky, as they left for the winter!!!!.

Those wasps are MEAT eaters!!! Just leave a hamburger outside near a nest...it will be gone in 15 minutes or so!! TRUE!!

Sidenote:
They built a nest in my mail box last year. I got one of those cans of wasp killer that shoots 20 ft, drove up to the mail box in the evening when they are quiet, opened the window a crack and shot that stuff at the nest! THEY ROARED TO LIFE AS THEY FLEW OUT LOOKING FOR THEIR ATTACKER! Actually flew at my SUV as they bit the dust! I may have looked funny doing it...but I think I would have been stung since 20 ft was not far enough...MEAN CRITTERS!
jeff

 

[gizzer777]

Yes, Plz Do

Mine does look kind of like that 0_o The dish has a bit of a darker color although it does match the description you gave (aluminum with small round holes). The arm in your pic though is upside down compared to how the one on my dish is.
Does one panel seem slightly higher compared to one adjacent panel while seeming lower to the panel opposite the initial adjacent one?....I hope that question made sense, lol.
I'll have to get my camera out and post some pictures of the dish. That should better explain my questions (and maybe answer a few everyone had).
Do I need a feedhorn cover if I am just going to put in a Ku LNBf, or is there another reason why I should have one?
I'm really looking forward to getting this dish up and working! It's just too exciting to think what signals are floating around out there!
Thx

The panels should be as close as possible to flush...you may look at loosening the retaining screws and resetting them...lockjaw pliers (with a towel to protect the dish from tooth marks) work well for this!! IMPORTANT to have the panels flush for good reception, it is also possible that it may have warped thru the years! To this day, my panels are still flush...I assembled the dish when I did not know a dish from a sparerib...many years ago.

If your feedhorn is full size you can get a cover for $30 at Skyvision (check with a sponser first though)...you just missed a sale from a member that I snagged for spares! You could also put up a request in the classiified forum or just make something as Pete mentioned! Besides also as Pete mentioned...you will be making a colony of wasps happy!!! (seriously, my feedhorn has always been covered!)

Would love to see some pics from all angles, closeups of LNB, feedhorn, motor etc...we can help more that way!

Your probable upcoming confusion and frustration will be VERY worth it when you have it properly set up! AND the knowledge and satisfaction you will have will make you a happy, and informed camper! (with the best Sat Picture in town!)

A decent $10 compass ($4 at Walmart camping section), and an SF-95 meter for about $10-$15 will make your life a lot easier setting up and for the future tuneups!
jeff
Jeff

 

[gizzer777]

F connectors and weather covers

You need a feedhorn cover as the wasps need someplace to live
But as long as your connections are good there is no real need, its just to keep the worst of the weather off the LNBF!

Just an FYI, they also make very inexpensive F connector rubber boots...Radio Shack or Home depot has them!

I usually coat my servo motor connections with liquid rubber (home depot) made for electrical connection water proofing...supppose you could coat the f- connectors too but then it would be a pain getting back at them when and if you need to! It is GREAT stuff (about $6 per can) A large piece if shrink wrap works well too!!!
Jeff

 

[PSB]

I stopped using rubber boots years ago, I use a dab of dielectric grease inside all external snap and seal connections and have NEVER had a problem since.
I am also trying out the Gel filled boots right now, but the jury is still out on them for now, kind of overkill after applying dielectric grease. But overkill is good I guess in wet areas.

http://www.dmsiusa.com/waterlock.htm

 

[gizzer777]

gel filled

I stopped using rubber boots years ago, I use a dab of dielectric grease inside all external snap and seal connections and have NEVER had a problem since.
I am also trying out the Gel filled boots right now, but the jury is still out on them for now, kind of overkill after applying dielectric grease. But overkill is good I guess in wet areas.
http://www.dmsiusa.com/waterlock.htm

I have not been able to find the gel stuff In Reno...They think I made it up! I think 3M makes some? Was not sure what they called that "rubber" liquid I mentioned...Dielectric was what I was looking for...Thanks Pete!

Jeff

Jeff

 

[aristotle73]

Gah, sorry to delay the suspense further but I won't be able to take pics till tomorrow or Monday. Stupid New Years -_-

I thought about taking the dish apart and putting it back together to make sure the panels were even. However, dishes are a part of radio I have little to no experience with; so I thought it best to confirm my actions first before proceeding.

Apart from my questions about my dish (which can probably only be answered once I get pictures of it), it also came with an old receiver. This thing is definitely old school. It has an analog meter for signal strength (it's either busted or needs repair) and is entirely knob based tuning. It's an old "Amway ASR 500". I'm pretty sure newer LNB(f)s won't work with it but I am interested in finding out more about it. If anyone knows of where to find user manuals or schematics, I'd like to know I'd love to gut this thing to see how it works