A Plea to Echostar

[Scott Greczkowski]

I admit it, I am a geek. I love having a world of information at my fingertips. And I love to tinker with electronics. I am still amazed and in awe of satellite technologies. I find it amazing that I can get radio and television signals from... (more)

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[FlyingJ]

I admit it, I am a geek. I love having a world of information at my fingertips. And I love to tinker with electronics. I am still amazed and in awe of satellite technologies. I find it amazing that I can get radio and television signals from... (more)

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST...

Catch new editions of "The Satellite Dish" every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at MultiChannelNews.COM!

Nicely written article Scott! I don't agree with it, but it was well stated.
Oh, and yes, Dude, you are a geek and i commend you for recognizing, accepting and rejoicing over that fact! Geek!

 

[turbosat]

Scott, great article But, I hope you correct that statement near the end, where it says "It is not time for echostar to correct" Im sure you meant 'Now time for.."

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes I did that immediately after I posted it, for some reason it takes time after you make a change in their interface and when the actual change is made online.

I also notice when I edit things after I post them, it screws up the fonts. I don't have any control of that stuff unfortunately.

 

[digiblur]

Scott, great article But, I hope you correct that statement near the end, where it says "It is not time for echostar to correct" Im sure you meant 'Now time for.."

and the... "DirecTV use to have a huge"

shouldn't it be "used" instead "use"?

 

[Stargazer]

I wonder if this could lead to a lawsuit against Dish Network but then again is there enough grounds to sue them?

 

[tigerfan33]

I have a plea to Dish also. Give us some more damn hd channels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wescopc]

Thanks Scott, I fully agree with you on this. It is far to easy for those who don't use legal FTA - to think lets just outlaw the sale of FTA receivers and the illegal uses will stop.
I strongly believe in the rights of the minority! We legal FTA users need to be heard! Thanks for putting Charlie on notice.
Bob

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

No matter if Dish retailers sell FTA systems or not will do nothing to fix Dish Networks pirarcy problem. If a Dish retailer does not sell a legal FTA system, people will buy them from other places.

The only thing this sales ban dos is takes money from hard working honest retailers, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Zero327]

No matter if Dish retailers sell FTA systems or not will do nothing to fix Dish Networks pirarcy problem. If a Dish retailer does not sell a legal FTA system, people will buy them from other places.

The only thing this sales ban dos is takes money from hard working honest retailers, nothing more nothing less.

It'll limit availability. There's black markets for everything, but the point is that it'll remove the ability for your average joe to acquire and reconfigure one. Charlie just told several thousand retailers to stop. I look forward to seeing what he does with those who don't. A question though, are you prepared to lose your DISH brand license over this one? Charlie doesn't bluff.

 

[Mr Tony]

It'll limit availability. There's black markets for everything, but the point is that it'll remove the ability for your average joe to acquire and reconfigure one. Charlie just told several thousand retailers to stop. I look forward to seeing what he does with those who don't. A question though, are you prepared to lose your DISH brand license over this one? Charlie doesn't bluff.

Once again this just shows your ignorance. Do some searching on the web. You'll see that the companies that sell FTA boxes that cater to hackers couldn't give a rats ass about Dish and don't sell it (why should they?) Yet the good honest companies who happen to sell both are getting the shaft.....

yeah Dish...that's the right way to do it dipshits. Go after the honest people who sell FTA as an extension to Dish so they can get International or Religious or sports feeds and the companies who do nothing but cater to hackers don['t have to worry

I guess I'll continue to order FTA boxes from either companies who have nothing to do with Dish ( ) or Canadian retailers who don't sell Dish either

 

[Davage]

Iceberg and Scott, I agree completely with you.


Dish Network should realize that Free-To-Air sets can complement their existing offerings. People who want to watch USA Network and Dr Gene Scott can't do that with just a Dish Network setup.

Could you imagine if Dish Network started to say that their dealer's couldn't sell DVD players because DVD players could be used to get rental movies, which would interfere with the Pay-Per-View revenue stream..?

Dish Network needs to fix their encryption system and leave legitimate dealers alone.

 

[lumpkin666]

While I do not like the idea of DishNetwork lumping (heh! I almost typed "lumpkin" instead of lumping) all FTA receivers into a category that makes FTA'ers look like hackers, I do see at least one good thing about doing this. If dish installers are selling only dish equipment and FTA equipment, that looks curiously "bad". Basically, people who assume (or are told) FTA = Hacking, will see FTA and dish being sold out of the same shop, and assume that the FTA equipment is for Dish use - thus propagating the FTA - Hacker though process.

Personally, I think that Dish is making a terrible move that is going to put us legit users in a bind. If the FTA = Hacker idea is futher propagated by Dish .. and the majority of people see FTA as a hacking tool, I'll be getting out. I know what I'm doing is legit, but I just don't need the headaches over a little TV. That's just plain sad!

I wish Dish would fix their problem. And if they are going to bust peoples chops for selling FTA equipment, then police the sales such that they break down only on those who are selling modified equipment, or packages that are obviously designed for hackers (i.e. dish500 dish/lnbs + FTA receiver + programming cable). When you get right down to it, just about any DVB receiver can receive FTA in some form or another (heck there was some reading that people were modifying certain Dish receivers to work as a FTA receiver!), so if Dish wants to keep people from using FTA recievers, then they need to break down on every DVB capable receiver, pc card, etc (how about commercial recievers, transmitters, etc?... oh yeah, they don't have the FCC far enough in their pocket to do that YET!)

 

[VinceT3]

Want a hacked box.. just visit any flea market.. usually at least one guy selling them there.. they're very easily spooked too.. so if you don't look like you'd be willing to get illegal cable they won't mention it.. plus they don't include the software just show you every way of getting the software..

 

[flyingsquirrel]

Dish is probably perfectly within it's rights to demand people stop selling FTA, or they would not do it.

I am an electronics dealer and there are all kinds of Non-compete clauses in dealer contracts. My guess it that there is one in Dish contracts, as well.

As for why Dish would do this, imagine this conversation at a DBS dealer:

That satelliter stuff is cool, but do I a friend of mine says you're stupid if you pay.

The sales person takes that customer into a back room, sells them the FTA, gives them a web site for the patch and pockets the money.

Why would Dish want to be associated in any way with that?

 

[Zero327]

Once again this just shows your ignorance. Do some searching on the web. You'll see that the companies that sell FTA boxes that cater to hackers couldn't give a rats ass about Dish and don't sell it (why should they?) Yet the good honest companies who happen to sell both are getting the shaft.....

yeah Dish...that's the right way to do it dipshits. Go after the honest people who sell FTA as an extension to Dish so they can get International or Religious or sports feeds and the companies who do nothing but cater to hackers don['t have to worry

I guess I'll continue to order FTA boxes from either companies who have nothing to do with Dish ( ) or Canadian retailers who don't sell Dish either

Appreciate the insult and all, but as far as "my" ignorance, it's not my head on the chopping block if you cross old Uncle Chuck. Do as you like. The grass is always greener on the other side, right?

I'm not defending the decision, simply showing why he's taken that point of view. What you THINK isn't really irrelevant as your license is connected to a big red button on Charlie's desk. He likes you, he doesn't press it. You piss him off, he does. You go ahead, and when your license disappears one night, I'll have nothing but a nice big warm "I told you so" waiting. Your personal feelings on the matter really don't enter into it.

 

[Mr Tony]

Appreciate the insult and all, but as far as "my" ignorance, it's not my head on the chopping block if you cross old Uncle Chuck.

not mine either. I don't have Dish

Do as you like.

I will but thanks for allowing me to

The grass is always greener on the other side, right?

yep. Loving my StarChoice system for hockey

I'm not defending the decision, simply showing why he's taken that point of view. What you THINK isn't really irrelevant as your license is connected to a big red button on Charlie's desk. He likes you, he doesn't press it. You piss him off, he does. You go ahead, and when your license disappears one night, I'll have nothing but a nice big warm "I told you so" waiting. Your personal feelings on the matter really don't enter into it.

Obviosuly you are confused. I don't sell dish or FTA boxes. I just don't like the fact that Dish pretty much groups all FTA'ers into the "hacker" group and as I said before, they are going after the people who sell both when they should be going after the people who sell just FTA and you can tell its a hacker site from the front page of it.

 

[Zero327]

not mine either. I don't have Dish


I will but thanks for allowing me to


yep. Loving my StarChoice system for hockey



Obviosuly you are confused. I don't sell dish or FTA boxes. I just don't like the fact that Dish pretty much groups all FTA'ers into the "hacker" group and as I said before, they are going after the people who sell both when they should be going after the people who sell just FTA and you can tell its a hacker site from the front page of it.

Nothing is obvious, least of all my statements or "confusion". General statements are general for a reason. Irregardless, what can or can't be identified was never the issue. Charlie wants FTA sales to drop, and this is one of the ways to get that done.

He doesn't think he can stop piracy altogether, that would be a fool's errand; he does however think it will make acquiring one more difficult. DISH retailer's won't carry them or they won't be retailers, and everyone else he'll sue to death. I think it's one of those perks for being the top 30 richest people in America.

You don't have to agree. Charlie doesn't care either way you think though. So huffing and puffing about it won't accomplish anything.

 

[Mr Tony]

Nothing is obvious, least of all my statements or "confusion". General statements are general for a reason. Irregardless, what can or can't be identified was never the issue. Charlie wants FTA sales to drop, and this is one of the ways to get that done.

he'll fail on that. People will just find other ways to purchase FTA boxes

He doesn't think he can stop piracy altogether

why not? Do you know what he is thinking? Highly unlikely. He thinks to stop the people who sell both Dish & FTA will stop the piracy? Agin he needs to look in the mirror to see the issue is with them. They could have found a better way to secure their system when Nagra2 came out but no they took the cheap route and now they have been paying for it. So instead of admitting "we have an issue" they figure "lets screw with the little retailers"

he does however think it will make acquiring one more difficult.

maybe you havent read my points and just picked and chose but the people selling the hack boxes don't sell Dish in the first place so why would it be more difficult? If they can't buy a box from a company that sells both Dish & FTA, they'll just find it on Ebay or a dealer that sells just FTA.

DISH retailer's won't carry them or they won't be retailers, and everyone else he'll sue to death. I think it's one of those perks for being the top 30 richest people in America.

he can sue all he wants. He forgets that boxes that are sold are LEGAL..hence the name "FREE TO AIR". So how can you say something is illegal when the box is legal to begin with? If a company is dumb enough to download illegal software into a box and sell it as such well then they deserve to get what they get. But to say "you can't sell something that is legal to sell" is absurd. What's next...old Chucky poo coming to my house and saying "Berg, those 8 FTA boxes you have you can't have even though they are legal?"

You don't have to agree.

and I don't have to. I'm stating that you can't say something is illegal when the boxes come legal from the factory.

Charlie doesn't care either way you think though. So huffing and puffing about it won't accomplish anything.

sounds like you have your head up "Uncle Chuck" (as you call him) ass you'll believe anything you read from him.

 

[Zero327]

sounds like you have your head up "Uncle Chuck" (as you call him) ass you'll believe anything you read from him.

Yeah, and if you weren't a staff member you'd have had your posts edited by now. You've been throwing insults at me because you don't seem to care what I have to say. I'll continue to respond based on the topic, not your insults.

I make my own judgments, but I also see both sides of the argument. You might think it ineffective, he believes it will be and so it's done. I never said I agreed with it, I never said I thought it would work. It's not hard to ascertain his thoughts from his actions though, since he couldn't have possibly thought such a decision would go over well with retailers or general populace alike.

The Nagra issue, yes, it's a pain. Admittedly so, but it costs more to fix it than to do this, so he does this. My expectation is there's more to the internal chips than is known and that will resolve the next security push, but we'll have to wait and see.

As far as suing people, American courts don't tend to favor the poorer defendants of late. Just an observation, take what you will from that. Legal and illegal are redefined daily if not hourly. Don't be surprised if his next move is a trip to Capitol Hill to make FTA illegal in fact. Likely, dunno, possible, yes.