98 Grand Caravan: Replace The Short Block?

[vegassatellite]

My wife has a minivan, a 98 Plymouth Grand Voyager (grand caravan, basically) with a 3.0 engine. Radiator is boiling over. The problem is either a hairline crack in a cylinder or a leaking head gasket. The mechanic says the short block needs to be replaced, but he can't do the work, I would have to take it to someone else.

I can't seem to find the paper the mechanic wrote up, or I would put exactly what he said. It was to the effect of the cooling system being over-pressurized by gases getting in to the coolant from the leak. I'm gonna pull the spark plugs next to see if any of them are wet and check the oil to see if any radiator fluid is in there. I'm basically venturing in to an aspect of vehicle repair/diagnosis I've never been to before.

So, the question comes down to, if the short block needs to be replaced, what are some of the deciding factors of whether I should do this or not? The transmission was recently done, less than 15k on it. AC works good, body in good shape, interior in good shape, etc. I do have to slap the dash to get the cluster to come back to life on occasion. There's always been a slight blowby problem, but I assume a new short block would cure that as well?

 

[JimMcC]

I'm no mechanic, but it all comes down to the cost. How many miles are on it?

 

[Bob Haller]

sounds like a good idea, shop around for the short block or rebuild.

i have had a bunch of cravans, the 3.0 blowby oil burning is common, so is tranny trouble, just had one rebuilt ,,,,,,,,

if you like the van why not? way cheaper than a new van.

although i was told all lower MPG vehicles are being dumped by the manufacturers........

do you really need a van?

 

[nsaspook]

Donate the car. (Tax write-off) Use the $4000+ you saved by not fixing the van to to buy a good (pay to have it checked out) newer used car. Gas guzzlers are cheap now. A quick look of craigslist shows 2002-2003 below 5K.

 

[jayn_j]

Yeah, what nsaspook said. I have seldom, if ever heard anything good about the Mitsubushi 3.0 engine. The 3.3 is the workhorse, and that one runs forever.

Voyagers/Caravans of that age are going for $2k-$3500. often with new transmissions. That's less than cost of repair.

 

[Van]

Ive got the 3.3 in a 96 grand voyager and cant say enough good about it( I do however not like the A604 transmission). These engines have been reported to get upwards of 400k miles before needing an overhaul and that puts it in the same quality of book as the volvo 5 cylinder or the 4 cylinder iron block in some pontiacs from the 80's and the 22R4 that toyota makes.

Cost wise to convert to a 3.3 you would need the whole engine, trans, computers, wiring harness, exhaust, and misc parts. If you decide to go with another 3.0 then invest in a little extra and have the used block gone over and replace all the seals and gaskets.

Before you do anything else though have you replaced the radiator cap? I had a big block car that would overheat and I replaced the pump and flushed the system and it still would overheat, if the radiator cap is old or isnt sealing right its not going to keep pressure on the system properly wich will allow the coolant to boil at the block and subsequently boil over. The cooling system on a vehicle works on a similiar principle as a pressure cooker only with a car pressure raises the boiling point of coolant so that it remains in a liquid state at higher temps so that it can pull the heat away from the block and head.

If you havent done it then try it, a $15 part could save you the cost of a new engine or vehicle.

 

[navychop]

I've had 3 of 'em. Agree on the radiator cap, I had that problem.

If, as is likely, the cap doesn't fix the problem, it's time to say goodbye. You could buy a newer used one in better shape than yours will be after the repairs, for little more money.

Time to reconsider your transportation needs, before you buy anything.

 

[snathanb]

My wife has a minivan, a 98 Plymouth Grand Voyager (grand caravan, basically) with a 3.0 engine. Radiator is boiling over.

Get a second opinion. Lots and lots of things can cause the Radiator to boil over.

 

[Van]

Pressure loss due to any of the following:

cracked radiator end tanks, punctured hose, hole in heater core, hole in bypass tube, essentialy any part of the external system that has coolant pass through it, failing radiator cap.

Flow loss due to the following:

Blocked passages in the radiator and or heater core, blocked hoses, blocked bypass tube, blocked thermostat housing, stuck thermostat, corroded pump fins that have dissolved to nubs.

Blockage can come from lack of routine coolant changes, using hard water in the mixing of coolant, repeatedly adding stuff like bars leak or block seal and not doing a flush of the system on a yearly basis. If you dont replace coolant on a regular basis the rust inhibitors stop working and you'll end up with rust debri resting in the lowest parts of the engine and cooling system wich will over time reduce flow.

If the blocks cracked then your boned but if its the head then you could get away with replacing the head and having the cylinders honed out and new rings added but be sure to weigh the cost versus how many miles the van has and the overal condition of it.

Check ebay for engines, Ive come across a supplier that has the 3.3 for $800 plus frieght shipping and the engines are remand so thats not a bad deal with the warranty he offers.

 

[vegassatellite]

Wife got an estimate of $1400 for the short, and 5 hours labor. 5 hours seems kinda quick on a minivan, this ain't like my Suburban, stuff's hard to get to, man.

They found trace amounts of exhaust gases in the coolant, that's what the report said. The shop that did the diagnosis doesn't mess with short block repair/replacement. If the problem was something else that could be fixed by them, it would be in their interest to find it as such. I have replaced the radiator because it did leak. The cap is new and has been pressure tested. The thermostat is new as are the hoses. Those are the kinds of things I can do myself comfortably. Radiator fluid has always been in good shape because we have an inside connection at a lube shop.

We do need a minivan because we have four kids (2 still in car seats) and my brother-in-law lives with us. My Suburban is my work vehicle and my Nissan is just a 2-seater truck.

I'm not going to trade up to a 3.3 as its not worth it to re-do everything. Just doing the top half alone is a decision that, financially, I could just about go either way on. Buying a car isn't an attractive option either because while my FICOs are good, my auto-enhanced scores are too low because of a repo in the past.

Current miles are between 180 and 190k. She still shines on the outside and looks good when detailed inside.

As for donating the cars, I have four kids and a business so I never fall short of tax deductions. I donated an '88 Town Car before and only realized about $50 in deductions because of my tax situation.


JayN, I thought Chrysler made their own engines, not Mitsubishi.

 

[Bob Haller]

Wife got an estimate of $1400 for the short, and 5 hours labor. 5 hours seems kinda quick on a minivan, this ain't like my Suburban, stuff's hard to get to, man.

They found trace amounts of exhaust gases in the coolant, that's what the report said. The shop that did the diagnosis doesn't mess with short block repair/replacement. If the problem was something else that could be fixed by them, it would be in their interest to find it as such. I have replaced the radiator because it did leak. The cap is new and has been pressure tested. The thermostat is new as are the hoses. Those are the kinds of things I can do myself comfortably. Radiator fluid has always been in good shape because we have an inside connection at a lube shop.

We do need a minivan because we have four kids (2 still in car seats) and my brother-in-law lives with us. My Suburban is my work vehicle and my Nissan is just a 2-seater truck.

I'm not going to trade up to a 3.3 as its not worth it to re-do everything. Just doing the top half alone is a decision that, financially, I could just about go either way on. Buying a car isn't an attractive option either because while my FICOs are good, my auto-enhanced scores are too low because of a repo in the past.

Current miles are between 180 and 190k. She still shines on the outside and looks good when detailed inside.

As for donating the cars, I have four kids and a business so I never fall short of tax deductions. I donated an '88 Town Car before and only realized about $50 in deductions because of my tax situation.


JayN, I thought Chrysler made their own engines, not Mitsubishi.

I would have the short block installed, or have the heads replaced, if they are significantly less expensive.

I too have had head gasket leaks, and the 3.0 oil burning is common.

the vehicle fits your needs, and mine too. they are very nice, but like everything have their issues.

yours has a rebuilt tranny, thats a big positive for getting the engine redone.

if your getting a short block make certain you get a new water pump, and timing belt.

its best to replace all the hoses and belts since everything is apart already.

I have 2 90s caravans. down syndrome recently.

ACs both recharged, new water pump, new timing belt, rebuilt tranny, other van needs rebuilt tranny soon, new radiator fan, new fuel pump not long ago on both vans..........

but then i will have long periods of trouble free operation

 

[charper1]

This thing is going to nickle and dime you death along with being a constant source or headaches and worry that likely will leave you or the wife stranded; even after any amount of engine rebuild. Dump it now!

 

[Skibum]

My '94 Intrepid has over 222,000 miles on the original engine and tranny. To be fair, though, the tranny has been failing for the past 100K miles; I just know how to drive it to avoid further aggravation. My 3.3 still purrs like a kitten. I don't see any sense in acquiring a depreciating payment plan if you own your van outright.

 

[Bob Haller]

This thing is going to nickle and dime you death along with being a constant source or headaches and worry that likely will leave you or the wife stranded; even after any amount of engine rebuild. Dump it now!

yours is a common misconception.

nickel and dime is peanuts in comparison with the depreciation on a new vehicle.....

my wife believes like you do buy a new vehicle so you dont waste money on repairs, and have a relable vehicle.

guess what even brand new vehicles break down, and the depreciation is many thousands.....

since my van is critical for my business I have two,

one is a back up if any of our vehicles break down and critical for hauling at certain times of the year.

my work van has a heavy drawer unit filled with parts and tools, and product for sale.

I like older vehicles, you dont feel so bad with parking lot events

 

[nsaspook]

My '94 Intrepid has over 222,000 miles on the original engine and tranny. To be fair, though, the tranny has been failing for the past 100K miles; I just know how to drive it to avoid further aggravation. My 3.3 still purrs like a kitten. I don't see any sense in acquiring a depreciating payment plan if you own your van outright.

The guy will end up paying at least 3K no matter what the shop tells him now unless they are just installing a junk-yard engine. Maybe $500-1000 for a complete motor with 100,000 miles.

 

[jayn_j]

JayN, I thought Chrysler made their own engines, not Mitsubishi.

True, except for the 3.0.

Base models of the Caravan were offered in most states with either a 2.4 L four-cylinder or the 3.0 L Mitsubishi V6 engine, except in several northeastern states, where the Mitsubishi V6 didn't meet emissions standards. In those locales, the 3.3 L engine was offered as the V6 option from 1997 through 2000. The manual transmission, never popular, was dropped. The 2.4 L four-cylinder engine produced more power than the Mitsubishi 3.0 had in the first two generations.

Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jayn_j]

yours is a common misconception.

nickel and dime is peanuts in comparison with the depreciation on a new vehicle.....

disclaimer: I haven't bought a new vehicle in years.

Given that, anything mechanical has a service life. At some point, the general wear on all the parts is heavy enough that it simply isn't worth repairing anymore. It wouldn't be true if replacement parts costs were closer to what they cost when placed in the vehicle. I remember studies where a car built from the parts bin would cost 8-10x the cost of the car from the showroom, excluding labor.

Bob, you are in the repair business. Don't you run across units where everything is so worn, it just isn't worth it to repair?

I have a friend who works as a reliability engineer for space vehicles for a major aerospace company. For the last thirty years he has been keeping a spreadsheet on his vehicle maintenance costs. He does it as a running 6 month average to soften the spikes of a major repair. He has observed that the best prediction of future repairs is past repairs, and watches for when the car passes the knee of an exponential curve. That's when he sells them.

I know that I have had cars that just got costlier and costlier to repair to the point where I was spending more than a car payment on repairs.

Back to Vegas' problem. I never suggested a new van. However, given the depressed selling price on used Chrysler minivans, I really think you would do much better to look for a used one with a 3.3 and recent transmission. I bet you can find one for about the same cost as repairing yours.

 

[Skibum]

However, given the depressed selling price on used Chrysler minivans, I really think you would do much better to look for a used one with a 3.3 and recent transmission. I bet you can find one for about the same cost as repairing yours.

Such is what I'll likely do with Intrepids when mine finally dies (going for at least 250,000 on this tranny). The cost of a used Intrepid in decent shape can be less than the price of a new transmission alone. XD

 

[vegassatellite]

Man, why can't every car just have a Chevy 350 engine? 370k miles on my Suburban, same engine, runs quiet.

We have unlimited roadside towing and assistance for $14/month. I think, though, that we may just end up driving it until it dies and then just have it towed to Father Joe or something. For now, we can just keep up on the antifreeze and make sure enough is in the radiator each morning. She just drove it to Vegas from Phoenix during the day without overheating, so as long as enough fluid is in there, we're good.

 

[TheForce]

Vegas-

Research Jasper remanufactured engines. If the Van is otherwise in good shape, it may be worth it if you look at the economics. If other stuff is soon to be needed, like the transmission then you may be better off getting another used Caravan. I almost bought one last summer when I was in process of closing on my Hybrid. There was one in the lot with 25,000 miles and 2 years old. Loaded with all sorts of plus extras. The dealer wanted $12,000 for it and the carfax was clean. But, I said I didn't need to spend 12,000 for a work vehicle as my present '99 was in excellent shape having recently done a new AC, water pump, alternator, brakes, tires and besides, I have a custom high end sound system that would cost me about $3000 to put into another van.
What I did is take the "new car" emotion out of my decision and spent $60 on a wash and detail wax job. I feel real good about that! They fixed my "New car" syndrome with "new car" air freshener! Saved me a $500 per month payment.