942 Upgradeable to MPEG4...

[dcmyles]

I apologize up front for beating a dead horse....but, an E* advanced Tech Support Team operator informed me on 26 Sep that once E* got all the pieces, etc... in place, that the 942 would become MPEG4 upgradeable. I asked it he would send me something in writing to confirm his statement and of course the answer was no. However, he also informed me that the public doesn't have access to E*'s privileged information. I of course emailed E* concerning this and have not received a reply. I did get the operator's first name and operator ID. Just curious if someone else has received the same information from E*. It would be the BOMB if this is indeed true

 

[JamesJ]

I thought they made a hddvr for mpeg4 already? the 411 is the mpeg4 811, and the 962 I thought was the mpeg4 942

 

[long_time_DNC]

962??? Is that rumor or fact?

 

[Foxbat]

962??? Is that rumor or fact?

It's a fact...

Spoiler

...that it's a rumor...

 

[JamesJ]

I put I THOUGHT, there was a thread about it on here wasnt there???? or am I just sleeptalking again

I just checked its just the 411, but I swear I read somewhere, probably someone just blowing smoke, that there was a 962, but again, that is not true, and its time for bed before i dig myself in a huge hole

here is a old thread for some reading

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=59687&page=1&pp=15

oh and here is discussion of mpeg4 and pictures of recievers....
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=66001&highlight=dish+962

 

[M Sparks]

I had heard of the 962 before I heard of a 411.

Here's how I see it...just an an informed opinion, I don't have anything to back it up. I don't see any reason why ANY recent model reciever couldn't be upgraded- just not necessarily by remote. All that SHOULD need upgrading is the MPEG decoder. Even with a DVR, the HDD just records a data stream- it doesn't care what format it's in. There are a few little things that should be software upgradable. (For example, recognizing a MPEG-4 stream and "unhiding" it. HD streams are hidden to non-HD receivers and MPEG-4 streams will be hidden to MPEG-2 recievers.)

The reason the 942 comes up is that it was probably DESIGNED to be upgraded, and it's too expensive to just toss in the garbage. I heard something about the 962 right about the same time the 942 came out, so it's very possible it was designed with upgrading in mind.

Here's a scenerio...DISH starts building 962s and stores them up until MPEG-4 is ready to hit. They start rolling out HD-LIL slowly, like DirecTV is planning. They send out new 962s free to current 942 owners in HD-LIL cities. People send their 942s back, DISH puts a new decoder in, now they have a bunch of "refurbished" 962s.

After a month or two, they throw up all the VOOM channels and a bunch of other national HD channels in MPEG-4. Those of us who don't have HD-LIL yet (or who never will) are offered a chance to swap our 942s for "refurb" 962s for $50-$75. We jump at the chance, because we are suckers, and we are grateful we aren't being forced to buy a new receiver. We help subsidize and speed up the swap-out. Eventually, the scale tips, and there are plenty of "refurb" 962s to swap out the rest for free.

They will probably offer the same kind of program for the 811/411, but the 811s will probably just wind up scrap. It appears that the 411 is a totally new chassis.

At the same time, they need to start selling MPEG-4 SD units. By the time they get around to switching SD to MPEG-4, the majority of the SD recievers will have naturally gone out of service, so the swap would be much smoother. They will HAVE to do that swap for free if it happens.

Now, it's POSSIBLE that the 942 is upgradable by software, but I doubt it. Still, early DirecTV receivers made the switch from MPEG-1 to MPEG-2- it's possible 942s were built with this in mind. But I think it's going to be done at the factory. (It's also possible that SOME 942s are upgradable- maybe that's why only some people are having problems with the new software?)

 

[SimpleSimon]

OK. I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

I agree - the 811 is definitely NOT upgradable. The 411 replaces the 811, 111, 301, 311, and all Legacy boxes.

As for the 942, all it takes is for someone to look inside and see if the MPEG-2 chip is socketed. If NOT, then all that's recoverable from them is the HDD. If SO, then MAYBE, just MAYBE, Sparks' idea of refurb'ing 942s into 962s is possible.

There is NO WAY, NO HOW, that any box with an MPEG-2 chip is upgradable to MPEG-4 by software. Period. End of discussion. Fugget aboud it.

Is it possible that some 942s have a MPEG-4 chip? Two chances: slim and none. I don't even think that MPEG-4 decoder chips are shipping in production quantities.

 

[Purogamer]

Don't forget the "free upgrade" he mentioned that will never happen...Charlie would install dishes personally before giving us MPEG-4 HD DVR boxes for free...

 

[robert393]

I must to have talked to the same person, because I got the same "spill"......
Robert

I apologize up front for beating a dead horse....but, an E* advanced Tech Support Team operator informed me on 26 Sep that once E* got all the pieces, etc... in place, that the 942 would become MPEG4 upgradeable. I asked it he would send me something in writing to confirm his statement and of course the answer was no. However, he also informed me that the public doesn't have access to E*'s privileged information. I of course emailed E* concerning this and have not received a reply. I did get the operator's first name and operator ID. Just curious if someone else has received the same information from E*. It would be the BOMB if this is indeed true

 

[John Kotches]

SimpleSimon:

If MPEG-4 decoder chips (the new gen chips actually handle MPEG-2/MPEG-4 and VC-1, you license what you need) weren't shipping in production qtys, Direct and Dish wouldn't be on the verge of delivering content with MPEG-4 compression.

You need the pipeline to have production silicon 3-4 months in advance, and I'm not counting other consumers of the same silicon including other CE manufacturers that will be building High Definition optical media (HD-DVD and Blu-ray players) that will require the same building blocks.

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

As for the 942, all it takes is for someone to look inside and see if the MPEG-2 chip is socketed. If NOT, then all that's recoverable from them is the HDD. If SO, then MAYBE, just MAYBE, Sparks' idea of refurb'ing 942s into 962s is possible.

That depends. If it's on a card in an expansion slot, the entire card could be replaced which would then expand its codec capability. The only true dead-end is if its on the motherboard and the upgraded chip is not pin compatible to the MPEG-2 chip.

added on edit
Even then, the motherboard could be upgraded.
end addition

Now there is the other side of the issue, and that is whether it is cost effective to do the upgrade, but that's another argument.

Best,

 

[Purogamer]

Does anyone trust E* to just software upgrade if they could?? Imagine the bug reports for that...

 

[M Sparks]

Simon, are you saying the 411 will become the new standard base reciever? It might make sense to produce just ONE basic reciever in large quantities, even for non HD customers. They wouldn't have to juggle as many software releases, or worry about swap outs as people upgrade to HD. All they need is a mid-level, single MPEG-4 DVR to replace the 500s.

As John mentioned, it wouldn't have to be socketed, as long as it wasn't hardwired into the main board. (And even if it is, the chassis, HDD, & Power Supply is still reusable.)

I also agree with John that the chips have got to be in production. 6 months ago, DirecTV thought they'd be in the transition by now. And Blu-Ray/HD-DVD was supposed to be out this Christmas. PlayStation 3 will also probably be using the same chips.

And of course, Simon's right, you can't upgrade to MPEG-4 by software. I just meant it's POSSIBLE the chips are in there already, and can be "turned on", as was the case with 1st generation DirecTV boxes. I don't think it's true, but it's POSSIBLE.

Purogamer is also right about free HD-DVRs. But DISH will have to do something about the 942s. They were pretty much known to be doomed from day one, yet people bought them. Those are their best customers (and a lot of them had already got burned on the 921). A more likely scenerio- 942 owners will be given the option of a free 411, or a cheap swap-out for a 962.

(921 owners will be offered the choice of a kick in the groin, or a poke in the eye.)

Don't forget, DISH has tried hard to keep the 942 away from loyal subscribers. I think it's because they know each one out the door is going to cost them money later. It's in their best interest to shut off MPEG-2 completely as soon as possible. They will not swap-out as aggresively as DirecTV, but eventually, they will have to.

(For all we know, the 942 is priced artificially high to cover the costs of future swap-outs.)

 

[Purogamer]

Purogamer is also right about free HD-DVRs. But DISH will have to do something about the 942s. They were pretty much known to be doomed from day one, yet people bought them. Those are their best customers (and a lot of them had already got burned on the 921). A more likely scenerio- 942 owners will be given the option of a free 411, or a cheap swap-out for a 962.

(921 owners will be offered the choice of a kick in the groin, or a poke in the eye.)

Don't forget, DISH has tried hard to keep the 942 away from loyal subscribers. I think it's because they know each one out the door is going to cost them money later. It's in their best interest to shut off MPEG-2 completely as soon as possible. They will not swap-out as aggresively as DirecTV, but eventually, they will have to.

(For all we know, the 942 is priced artificially high to cover the costs of future swap-outs.)

So even though we knew the 942 was doomed, people bought it anyways, and you except DISH to say anything other than "hee hee hee" and try it again? We're SUCKERS, Dish knows it, and they'll do it to us again if they so choose. Until people stand up and say "Screw you" they'll keep doing it, and I really don't think we're going to have the balls to pass on MPEG-4 boxes, so it's our own fault and we're not going to get free upgrades to MPEG-4 because of it.

 

[havana]

M. Sparks, in your scenario you neglected to mention the 921 survivors...my take is that after the 942 swap-out all of the 921 owners will be herded into a cattle cars, taken to an undisclosed destination where they will be deloused and given refurbished 13 inch black and white TV’s.

 

[rkrenicki]

Silicon Image has been making a MPEG1/2/4 decoder chip for a bit over 3 years now..

ever see a DVD player that plays "Divx" files? Thats MPEG4 my friend (albiet a butchered version of it)

I believe that Broadcom is working on releasing a chip for MPEG4 in the near future

 

[DarrellP]

Moderator's, please put a "?" in the title of this thread, it is misleading.

 

[SimpleSimon]

All you guys since my last post make sense. The problem is that your good ideas weren't put into the 942.

I believe that Broadcom is working on releasing a chip for MPEG4 in the near future

And that's the chip that E* uses / will use - which is why I said the 942 couldn't have a MPEG-4 chip yet.

 

[rkrenicki]

actually, I believe the Broadcom chip is actually available now, however it is not in full production.

I have seen datasheets about it, but I cannot seem to find them now, which is why I believe is not in full speed production, but probably only in "small runs". However, the chip does exist, and has been taped out.

oh, and there is no socketed chip upgrade for this.. The decoder would most likely be a BCM703x.. the same chip series used in most HD converters (be it cable, ota, or satellite.. heck even DVD players use this chip) for the last few years.. This chip is not socketable. It is a BGA chip, and socketing it would be unfeasable.

If there was a local bus connector on the board, perhaps an add-in module could take over this chips function for MPEG4 compatability, but that is highly doubtful, as Dish wouldnt want the end user to open the box.. seeing there is no "slot" for such an upgrade.

The only reciever that I know of currently that is "MPEG4 Upgradable" by the end user, is the Motorola DSR550/505 and DSR530, which both have an extended "PCMCIA-like" slot on the side of the reciever, which is a direct connection to the PCI bus in the converter, allowing for a suplimental chip to take over the decoding.

 

[Smith P.]

This one http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7411-PB04-R.pdf