922 vs TiVo (HD, Series3)

[scdown]

I looked around, and couldn't find recent threads that focus on this topic, so, I thought I'd start a thread with some observations.

Why would I do this, given that TiVo HD only works with cable? Because I'm a recent convert from cable, and I suspect that others may find this perspective useful in making a decision on switching. Otherwise I admit it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Please note that I'm focusing more on design features, and the user experience - I'm not focusing on reported bugs at this time, as I assume they're correctable, and in general will be fixed.

Here we go:


Performance

• 922. No contest - very responsive
  • Guide is much faster on 922
  • Setting up recordings is faster on 922
  • Setting up and prioritizing series recordings is mych faster on 922 - it used to take my TiVo HD 5 minutes to commit a list of season pass priority changes
  • Cold startup is faster on the 922, by a good 5 minutes.
  • I think some of the responsiveness comes from faster overall hardware
  • I think part of the responsiveness of the guide may come from an RF remote as opposed to IR. Scrolling is faster in any direction when holding down navigation buttons

Guide

• Speed - 922. My wife and I had reservations about this, because we both really like the TiVo guide. It offers a grid somewhat like the 922, but IMHO is too slow to be usable. The standard dual-list interface worked pretty well, and we were happy with it. The guide on the 922 is fast enough to be really usable
• Usefulness - 922. The 922 shows the recording status of programs in the guide. TiVo doesn't. This is really helpful to me, when you have 45 series recordings and you're not quite sure if one program in the guide is going to record

Recording

1. User experience - tie. Overall, it's just as easy to set up a series recording or regular recording with either box.
2. Management - 922.
   1. Conflict resolution is well thought out on the 922 - first, you're told about them - on the Tivo, you have to go to Find Programs/To Do List/View Recording History (or something like that), and the things that WON'T record in the future or DIDN'T record in the past show up there. The 922 shows a show with a red line through it in the daily recording list
   2. Series management on the 922 is much faster. No lags, you get back to what you want to do (watch TV) much faster.

Web access/setup

1. Online program guide - so far, 922. TiVo's is improving, and it's close, but the Dish Remote Access program guide is pretty quick and comprehensive.
2. DVR integration - 922. It's nearly instantaneous - On the TiVo web site, changes are submitted, and your TiVo dials in when it dials in to get changes. You don't know when this happens until you get an e-mail confirmation. On the 922, it's just there.
3. Online conflict resolution - 922. TiVo doesn't even really offer anything in this area.

Network features

1. Remote viewing - 922. TiVo HD (don't know about the Premiere) does not have this feature at all
2. Online services -
   1. OnDemand from your provider - 922. TiVo works a 1-way CableCard, and so cannot see OnDemand services from your cable provider.
   2. Amazon VOD - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   3. Netflix - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   4. YouTube - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   5. Google TV - Future 922. This could be a real game changer for Dish, but I won't go too far there, as it currently doesn't exist.

Overall

Thus far, we're really liking the 922. This is not a bash on TiVo - they set the bar high, and it's taken a while for a set-top box to come close. On a features basis, the 922 clears the bar, and made it easier to make the switch.

Just my inflation adjusted $0.02.
Steve

 

[empiretc]

1. Online services -
   1. OnDemand from your provider - 922. TiVo works a 1-way CableCard, and so cannot see OnDemand services from your cable provider.
   2. Amazon VOD - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   3. Netflix - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   4. YouTube - TiVo. 922 currently lacks access to outside services.
   5. Google TV - Future 922. This could be a real game changer for Dish,

Thanks. I recently changed to a TivoHD from a 722k and the slow guide and menus took some time to get use to.

However, when it comes to online services, Tivo will always be on top. No way will dish lose revenue to Netflix or other VOD services and who knows about streaming content. I no longer use my PS3 to stream pictures and videos to the TV. The tivo does this just fine. Also, there are several different applications that make transfering video to/from the TivoHD very easy (all over the LAN). When dish gets a receiver to do all of this, I will go back!

I give user experience to Dish. Usability goes to Tivo, but these are several things I find useful that others may never bother with.

 

[scdown]

However, when it comes to online services, Tivo will always be on top. No way will dish lose revenue to Netflix or other VOD services and who knows about streaming content. I no longer use my PS3 to stream pictures and videos to the TV. The tivo does this just fine. Also, there are several different applications that make transfering video to/from the TivoHD very easy (all over the LAN). When dish gets a receiver to do all of this, I will go back!

I agree that Dish (or any TV provider) is unlikely to invite the wolf into the fold. Also, I do definitely miss the Netflix integration - that was one sticking point. Unfortunately, I was pushed over the edge by Comcast.

On another note, given what they charge for the box relative to its expected lifetime, I'm a little surprised that TiVo never went for faster processors and drives. Another $50 on that platform would be unlikely to scare off most of their market, and most of my little gripes with TiVo were performance related.

At the risk of taking my own thread off topic, I admit to being curious about whether the TiVo Premiere is a better competitor (probably is) for some of the things I liked better in the 922...

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Actually on the 922 DISH will be adding support for HULU and Netflix and other streaming services. This was something they talked about at Team Summit.

In addition with GoogleTV this idea even goes further.

 

[cornflakes]

Thanks for this comparison... I'm switching from a Tivo HD Series 3 to a 922 too... getting installed tomorrow. I love my Tivo, and back when I had the Dish VIP 622, I thought the 622 was pretty awesome. So now I'm very excited about the 922.

There are a couple of features on the Tivo HD that I will miss though:

1. DVR-to-DVR transfer: I have two Tivos and I love being able to watch one show in one room, then finish it up in another room, or just completely transfer a show from one DVR to the other.

2. YouTube: It's actually a lot of fun sometimes to have a bunch of friends over, and we would get to talking about a hilarious video on YouTube, and we can pull that up right on the TV and watch together. I'm really going to miss this.

 

[scdown]

Actually on the 922 DISH will be adding support for HULU and Netflix and other streaming services. This was something they talked about at Team Summit.

That's really nice - Customer Service wouldn't answer that for me (off script). I'll definitely take advantage of that.

In addition with GoogleTV this idea even goes further.

Agreed. GoogleTV is transformational. Hopefully more transformational than AppleTV turned out to be . You could just hear the mojo being sucked out of Cupertino...

BTW, Scott, nice forum ya got here!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

BTW, Scott, nice forum ya got here!

: Welcome!

 

[bforce]

Actually on the 922 DISH will be adding support for HULU and Netflix and other streaming services. This was something they talked about at Team Summit.

In addition with GoogleTV this idea even goes further.

That's great news!! Heard anything about Vudu being added??

 

[MikeD-C05]

Actually on the 922 DISH will be adding support for HULU and Netflix and other streaming services. This was something they talked about at Team Summit.

In addition with GoogleTV this idea even goes further.

This is great news! I only hope they don't go back on this later. This will make the 922 truly the media hub of your home if they allow it to happen.

 

[riffjim4069]

We have three 622s sitting in the closet, but we certainly cannot use them in any form or fashion without Dish Network service. Anyway, just a few additional notes:

1. This comparison really should be between the 922 and the Tivo Premiere since the TivoHD is now an outdated model. The Premiere UI adds several enhancements, but the new UI is also slow due to one onboard procesor being disabled because of stability issues...which will hopefully be corrected soon. Personally, I love both the VIP and TivoHD/Premiere models but, as others have pointed out, it really is an apples to oranges comparison since both products cannot be directly compared.

2. Recording/Search/Season Pass - all go to Tivo. To be honest, I experienced very few problems with the functions on our 622s and, from what I have seen, the 922s function very similar. However, all my Tivo recordings and scheduling conflicts have been 100% reliable.

3. TivoHD/Premiere has only two tuners. While this is not often a problem, it is sometimes highly annoying when there are three shows I wanted to watch/record. I am very disappointed the new Premiere model didn't include a third tuner since the new MoxiHD also support three tuners.

4. Web Access - the Premiere model fully integrates guide and search data through the web. For example, search results can include video from Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, etc. and is configurable. It's really pretty slick, but once again the new UI is slow due to the disabled processor issue coupled with the fact its new Flash platform needs to be optimized. Additionally, Tivo recordings can be scheduled through their website and there are Tivo iphone apps. Plus, I have my Slingbox Classic connected to my Tivo and can access it from just about anywhere.

5. Tivo service can be used just for OTA ($10-12 monthsly subscription) whereas you'll need to subscribe to a Dish Network program package with the 922. The TivoHD/Premiere is the preferred option for those wanted a premium DVR for OTA only. Of course, there is always the DTVPAL DVR without subscription fees, but it doesn't do name-based recording and is certainly not in the same class as a Tivo or 922.

6. The Tivo Premiere is far more energy effieicent than a 922. It uses 26 watts vice an estimated 50-60 for the 922. http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/209060-another-hidden-5-month-dvr-cost.html - yeah, this isn't a user experience issue, but this could be a significant factor if you have three or four DVRs in service like we do.

 

[Jhon69]

We have three 622s sitting in the closet, but we certainly cannot use them in any form or fashion without Dish Network service. Anyway, just a few additional notes:

1. This comparison really should be between the 922 and the Tivo Premiere since the TivoHD is now an outdated model. The Premiere UI adds several enhancements, but the new UI is also slow due to one onboard procesor being disabled because of stability issues...which will hopefully be corrected soon. Personally, I love both the VIP and TivoHD/Premiere models but, as others have pointed out, it really is an apples to oranges comparison since both products cannot be directly compared.

2. Recording/Search/Season Pass - all go to Tivo. To be honest, I experienced very few problems with the functions on our 622s and, from what I have seen, the 922s function very similar. However, all my Tivo recordings and scheduling conflicts have been 100% reliable.

3. TivoHD/Premiere has only two tuners. While this is not often a problem, it is sometimes highly annoying when there are three shows I wanted to watch/record. I am very disappointed the new Premiere model didn't include a third tuner since the new MoxiHD also support three tuners.

4. Web Access - the Premiere model fully integrates guide and search data through the web. For example, search results can include video from Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, etc. and is configurable. It's really pretty slick, but once again the new UI is slow due to the disabled processor issue coupled with the fact its new Flash platform needs to be optimized. Additionally, Tivo recordings can be scheduled through their website and there are Tivo iphone apps. Plus, I have my Slingbox Classic connected to my Tivo and can access it from just about anywhere.

5. Tivo service can be used just for OTA ($10-12 monthsly subscription) whereas you'll need to subscribe to a Dish Network program package with the 922. The TivoHD/Premiere is the preferred option for those wanted a premium DVR for OTA only. Of course, there is always the DTVPAL DVR without subscription fees, but it doesn't do name-based recording and is certainly not in the same class as a Tivo or 922.

6. The Tivo Premiere is far more energy effieicent than a 922. It uses 26 watts vice an estimated 50-60 for the 922. http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/209060-another-hidden-5-month-dvr-cost.html - yeah, this isn't a user experience issue, but this could be a significant factor if you have three or four DVRs in service like we do.

Think The 922 should receive a little slack when comparing energy usage as the 922 will be able to operate functions for more than one TV.

new TVs now have internet compatibility built in.

 

[riffjim4069]

Think The 922 should receive a little slack when comparing energy usage as the 922 will be able to operate functions for more than one TV.

new TVs now have internet compatibility built in.

I don't buy the 2nd TV argument, but I certainly cut them a little slack since they need to power the LNBs.

 

[DishSubLA]

I have a TiVo original Series 3 for OTA, and it is a good product, but Dish DVR's are better overall. The OP's critique was right on. TiVo has the same problems Dish does relating to the info not being accurate, so my TiVo keeps trying to record every instance of BBC Newsnight instead of just the new episode rather than the 4 repeat broadcasts.

A few things I do love about the TiVo series 3 is the OLED display. Every DVR made should have this. I can't tell you the number of times I see my Dish DVR red light on, but I want to know what it is recording, especially when I think it should not be recording, and it, in fact, is recording a repeat showing rather than just the new episode already recorded, even after I had manually canceled the repeat showing from the Daily Schedule. I LOVE THE OLED DISPLAY! Pity TiVo eliminated that feature from all future boxes.

And I love the CNET and Revision 3 podcasts the TiVo reacords for me. In fact, they constitute the majority of my recordings, now, although it is still an important OTA DVR for me.

I must say, however, that if the Moxi had OTA, I would have gone with it instead. If I every am forced back to cable, I will pay to get the Moxi HD 3 tuner over a TiVo, any day, and the Moxi Mate. As for the Premiere, even the TiVo fanboys consider it a fair disappointment. I for one am glad the Premiere was under-whelming, because it means my old Series 3 is still TiVo state of the art .