I just read a post on EngadgetHD announcing that the Dish 922's evil twin, the T2200S, will indeed be for sale and use with tru2way networks. Verizon FiOS may be transitioning to the same standard. My question is, if you're in a Verizon area, and you like your Dish DVR, would you jump ship? I'm pretty sure I would!
922 + Verizon = Churn?
- Thread starter CowboyDren
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I definitely would. But it also says that production of that particular unit won't start until the end of this year, so you won't be able to buy one until Q1 2010, at the earliest.
Remember...the Echostar T2200S won't use the Dish Network DVR software, it will use whatever true2way (java) software is offered by the cable company. No cable company currently offers DVR software comparable to the Dish Network DVR software.
Any DVR that relies on the Verizon FiOS guide is crippled. Verizon uses FYI as its guide data provider, and they are notorious for labeling new episodes as repeats and repeats as new episodes. By buying a T2200S, you'd basically be buying a 1TB version of the existing [unreliable] FiOS DVR with built-in Sling functionality.
If you want a reliable DVR for FiOS, you need to buy a DVR that provides reliable guide data from a vendor like Tribune. The TivoHD and Moxi both do that.
Any DVR that relies on the Verizon FiOS guide is crippled. Verizon uses FYI as its guide data provider, and they are notorious for labeling new episodes as repeats and repeats as new episodes. By buying a T2200S, you'd basically be buying a 1TB version of the existing [unreliable] FiOS DVR with built-in Sling functionality.
If you want a reliable DVR for FiOS, you need to buy a DVR that provides reliable guide data from a vendor like Tribune. The TivoHD and Moxi both do that.
I don't know about that. My local guide data is always messed up. And the station that is messed up the most is owned by Tribune.
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Tribune isn't perfect by any means, but you really haven't experienced a bad (unreliable) guide until you've tried a FiOS DVR. New episodes of shows on ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC/TNT/FX are regularly labeled as repeats, with repeats labeled as new episodes. When there are back-to-back episodes, the FiOS guide will often list only one episode, so you miss the second.
The FiOS DVR software itself isn't that bad, but a DVR is only as reliable as its guide data. Verizon's unreliable guide data is probably the #1 complaint about the service. If you want a reliable DVR with FiOS, you basically have no choice but to buy a TiVo or Moxi...at least until Verizon switches guide data providers.
The good news is that some cable providers are improving their software for true2way, recognizing that this equipment won't be limited by the memory constraints of the existing hardware. For example, Comcast's true2way software can take advantage of 16:9 screens, unlike their current software for Motorola and SA DVRs.
The screenshots below show an early version of the Comcast true2way STB software.
Verizon is also working on a 16:9 interface. This interface will run on new hardware. Unfortunately, it still relies on the same guide data provider (FYI Television).
The good news is that some cable providers are improving their software for true2way, recognizing that this equipment won't be limited by the memory constraints of the existing hardware. For example, Comcast's true2way software can take advantage of 16:9 screens, unlike their current software for Motorola and SA DVRs.
The screenshots below show an early version of the Comcast true2way STB software.
Verizon is also working on a 16:9 interface. This interface will run on new hardware. Unfortunately, it still relies on the same guide data provider (FYI Television).
You are so right about accurate guide data being EVERYTHING for the whole point of a DVR. As others have pointed out, Tribune has their goofs, but, overall, I have to say that I am pretty happy with Tribune. They handle the guide data for both Tivo and Dish.
how much churn would they really see,FIOS is available to such a small percent of the overall population that i'm sure there are not that many e* subs that would have the opportunity to switch.cause if i could get FIOS i would,but i will never ever see it. i have a better chance of E* giving me SD locals than i do of ever getting FIOS
Yes.
Moxi's primary advantages over the TivoHD are:
- 16:9 interface with high resolution graphics
- can display small guide at bottom of screen
- plug-and-play support for any external drive, not just the WD My Expander
- much larger liveTV buffer
- on-screen widgets
- no dual buffers
- no recording downloads
- no multi-room viewing
- no wishlists or comparable functionality (can't record based on search)
- no overlap protection
- doesn't keep record of recorded programs to eliminate duplicates
Moxi uses Tribune guide data. They license the Tribune guide data (just like TiVo) and deliver it to each box using their Internet servers (just like TiVo). Moxi includes a lifetime subscription as part of the purchase price ($799), whereas TiVo makes it optional ($199-$249 + $399 lifetime).
Good list. If one has had an existing Tivo, one can get lifetime for $299 as part of a MSD discount. Itd be nice if TiVoHD had a better 16:9 EPG, updated UI. While familiarity is a nice thing and the UI of TiVo is decent, I don't get how TiVo introduced TiVoHD with the same UI as the Series I from 2000. Can you imagine if Apple never modernized their ipod UI? TiVo is a luxury product, let's face it, and they expected to be innovative.
Another issue is just Verizon. They charge upwards to $80 for a truck call to install a cable card (one might get single stream and require two), if cable cards aren't setup at the initial setup of Fios. Over at tivocommunity, people are saying Verizon phased them out, but a Verizon CSRs are generally clueless. While their TV channel lineup is extensive and they sell it making no profit on it to chip away marketshare from cable and sat, Verizon has the worst customer service I've seen around. One might prefer keeping the 24x7 service from Phillipines or India that you get with Dish, than the limited, call during work hours only, Verizon, rude with an attitude, customer service.
According to the T2200S Feature Sheet that Scott posted, the device supports M-Card and MoCA, too. I wonder, if you use current-gen M-Cards, would you get to use the Dish guide/timer interface? I realize the guide data comes down from Verizon/TWC/Whomever, but I like my Dish interface almost as much as I like my 722 hardware.
All true2way boxes use the existing M-CARDs. There are no new cards for these boxes. There are three basic differences that separate the new boxes from existing CableCard products like the TiVo and Moxi. They have: (1) a bidirectional receiver for two-way communication with the cable company headend, (2) no interface or EPG of any kind, and (3) OCAP middleware to download and run the cable company's EPG/DVR software.
There's no usable sofftware on the T2200S at all. You plug it in without a cable connection, or connect it to a provider without true2way (OCAP) software, and you get a black screen. It's essentially a doorstop without the cable company's software.
Dish Network is not supplying anyone with their own software, which is what makes their own DVRs so good. They are keeping that to themselves for competitive reasons.
