921 Installation Help Needed

[acruther]

I just upgraded to a Dish 921, but am having issues with the two tuner set up. A Dish Network tech (sub I assume) came out and upgraded the LMB and hooked it up to the machine. He used a single line from the dish to the machine, with a splitter right before the 921.

The machine could not download the software updates, so the tech had to put in a different LMB temporarily and then run a separate line (through the house - temporary). Then the software updates downloaded fine. He then swapped the LMB back and reinstalled the splitter. After some fiddling, the 921 started receiving signals on both tuners - YEAH!!!

Unfortunately, not all channels are received on both tuners. Tuner 2 doesn't receive SciFi, for example (Satellite 110 - Transponder 8).

I have tried reseting the machine, reseting the connection (unplugging the coax), running the check switch, everything I can think of - no go.

Does anyone have an idea what is causing this problem? I have a sinking suspicion the tech should have run two lines rather than the splitter crap (how am I ever going to download another update?)

Also, none of the timers I have set up seem to be working. They just ignore what I say and don't record. When I manually record, I get an error saying that I am not subscribed to the channel, but then it records anyway. But it never stops - even when I push the stop button - even when I go through the menu and try to stop it. The only way I can get it to stop is to use both tuners up with the PIP and change the channel away.

Argghhh... Help!!!

 

[kluken]

I just upgraded to a Dish 921, but am having issues with the two tuner set up. A Dish Network tech (sub I assume) came out and upgraded the LMB and hooked it up to the machine. He used a single line from the dish to the machine, with a splitter right before the 921.

The machine could not download the software updates, so the tech had to put in a different LMB temporarily and then run a separate line (through the house - temporary). Then the software updates downloaded fine. He then swapped the LMB back and reinstalled the splitter. After some fiddling, the 921 started receiving signals on both tuners - YEAH!!!

Unfortunately, not all channels are received on both tuners. Tuner 2 doesn't receive SciFi, for example (Satellite 110 - Transponder 8).

I have tried reseting the machine, reseting the connection (unplugging the coax), running the check switch, everything I can think of - no go.

Does anyone have an idea what is causing this problem? I have a sinking suspicion the tech should have run two lines rather than the splitter crap (how am I ever going to download another update?)

Also, none of the timers I have set up seem to be working. They just ignore what I say and don't record. When I manually record, I get an error saying that I am not subscribed to the channel, but then it records anyway. But it never stops - even when I push the stop button - even when I go through the menu and try to stop it. The only way I can get it to stop is to use both tuners up with the PIP and change the channel away.

Argghhh... Help!!!

I may be wrong but I didn't think you could combine both LNB feeds through one cable and then split it at the tuners. I don't think your installer did it right.

 

[j5races]

There is some kind of splitter that work s with the dpp44 i think. but with the 921 being as iffy as it is you REALLY need to have two good feeds if you are going to have any kind of chance with it. I have a 921 and have experienced only a couple of problems (slow response, lockups, audio dropouts, pixelations) but nothing like the rest of the guys on here and dbstalk.com have. I have to theory for why. 1st i have to straight feeds right from lnb's no switch (i think the 921 and maybe other dvrs have trouble keeping lock with dish's switches). 2nd i have two fans blowing on my 921 (was on the 510 before the upgrade) and it stays cool all the time. (same for the 510). I think that heat is why many of the 501,508,510,522,721,811,and 921's have so many problems.......

Congrads on your purchase when it works right its awesome. The other night i recorded monsters garage in HD on discHD and iron chef in SD at the same time! I didnt push it and try to watch a previously recorded show at the same time (motorola HD cable dvrs will do this no problem), but maybe some day the 921 will be stable enough to do that....

off topic-----i just found out that the motorola dct-6412 hd dvr only has a 120g hard drive, how sad! but in a few months cox cable is going to offer a external storage option. and in third quarter this year motorola is releasing there third generation hd box that has a much better sd picture output

 

[SimpleSimon]

The 'splitter' being referred to here is a "DishPro Separator".

Let's not confuse readers by using the wrong terms - it's bad enough that there's already a half-dozen different little boxes that look alike and are not interchangable.

The Separator requires a DishProPlus switch or LNBF to drive it.

Oh - and j5races - if you've got a Dish500 (are receiving both 110 & 119), you have a switch whether you can see it or not. A DP Twin has hardware built-in that would be considered a "DP22" if it was in a separate box. DP Quad - DP24. DPPlus Twin - DP32.

 

[j5races]

Simon, you definately know your stuff!!! Ok well i agree that there are switches built in to the lnb's but all i know is that the people who have the most problems with their 921's seem to be the ones who have dpp44's and other sw21 and cascade setups or whatever. it just seems like the simpler the setup the better it holds a lock.....

I bet if some of the guys here or at dbstalk who have those crazy problems with their 921's were to unhook their crazy cascade setups and run two feeds to their 921 (if they can) and see if some of their problems dissapear!!!

Thanks simon, i know i have learned a lot from you!

Jon

 

[goaliebob99]

Yes please dont get a ddp seporator confuzed with a splitter.. they are entirely two diffrent things...

 

[SimpleSimon]

j5races: You're welcome.

I see what you mean about extra boxes - and that might be an issue with a few of the problems, but actually, the 921 SATELLITE tuners are pretty solid.

Problems there can usually be traced back to poor installations - but that's true with any of these boxes.

 

[dfergie]

Simon Knows.... My 921 worked fine for a month hooked to a dpp44, dpquad and on the wing sats dp lnbs, charlie chat comes along in Dec. I get cursed and loose all even transponders (.) I installed a seperator and magically everthing re-appeared and its been purring like a kitten since....

 

[Grandude]

Simon, you definately know your stuff!!! Ok well i agree that there are switches built in to the lnb's but all i know is that the people who have the most problems with their 921's seem to be the ones who have dpp44's and other sw21 and cascade setups or whatever. it just seems like the simpler the setup the better it holds a lock.....

I bet if some of the guys here or at dbstalk who have those crazy problems with their 921's were to unhook their crazy cascade setups and run two feeds to their 921 (if they can) and see if some of their problems dissapear!!!

Jon

I have to disagree with you. My 921 is hooked up to a DPP44 using one cable to a Separator and that part of my system works flawlessly. Also have a 721 hooked up the same way with no problems. Most of the 921 problems are related to OTA, not the Dish signals.

 

[acruther]

Thanks for all the responses, though I wish they were consistent!

I have a tech coming out tomorrow to look at the setup and try to correct any problems. I am really leaning towards forcing him to run another line just to make the setup as bulletproof as possible.

The fact that I couldn't download box upgrades without the two lines makes me think it's the right way to go. What am I going to do when another upgrade inevitably come out?

As for the 921 in general, I pretty much like it. I think the way it seemlessly controls both tuners without you having to worry about it is nice. Being a control freak myself, I would like to control it personally. However, having a wife...well...you get the picture.

The things I don't like are:
- PVR Events are listed by channel rather than by name. The old 510 setup was much better for PVR listings. Not sure why they screwed that up
- Unbelievably slow boot times. They used a x486 platform (so I'm told by E*) with a Linuz OS and the result is horid performance. This was a corner they shouldn't have cut.
- If you have a OTA channel and a satellite channel with the same channel number (say 005 and 5), the guide will sometimes get confused on which channel you are recording on. It is only a display issue - but still pretty silly bug. Having done a little programming, it's pretty obvious that the comparison they are doing is numeric - not text.
- The fact that installers are not properly trained.

 

[maitre2pitza]

First of all what is the part number for the separator? I was on the phone with DISH both last night and this afternoon. Their tech last night said all we need is a DPP 44 switch and a separator (part number unknown) at the 921 to divide the single cable into the two inputs. Today they added one more part to the puzzle. Aparantly you also need a Dish Pro Plus LMBF. IS this really true??? Can't I just put in a DISH Pro quad head and run the wire straight to the receiver???

 

[SimpleSimon]

Thanks for all the responses, though I wish they were consistent!

Well, I guess you could look closer at the people posting, their histories, and how they present.

The facts are that many (all?) 921's can NOT handle DPPlus technology until they get a software download. The factory S/W version of L054 can NOT deal with DPPlus.

Then, once you've got the code that CAN handle the DPP44, apparently, due to the typical E* incompetence, there are reports of problems where you can NOT use a DPP44 switch WITHOUT a Separator. Strange, but seems to be true.

In closing, you'll be lucky if the tech that comes out has any clue what DPPlus technology is, or how to hook it up.

 

[BobaBird]

Their tech last night said all we need is a DPP 44 switch and a separator (part number unknown) at the 921 to divide the single cable into the two inputs. Today they added one more part to the puzzle. Aparantly you also need a Dish Pro Plus LMBF. IS this really true??? Can't I just put in a DISH Pro quad head and run the wire straight to the receiver???

The only DishPro Plus pieces are the dual tuner receivers and (so far) 2 switches, the DPP44 and the DPP Twin. DP Plus refers to the capabilities of a switch so it wouldn't apply to an LNBF. While often referred to as an LNB, the Twin, in all its forms, is actually *2* LNBs with an integrated switch. The 2 single cable solutions are

• DP Twin (or DP Quad) > DPP44 > DP Separator
• DPP Twin > DP Separator

The DP Quad is not a Plus switch so with it you would need to either run 2 lines or add the DPP44 and DP Separator.

 

[SimpleSimon]

BobaBird, you appear to be contradicting yourself. I know what you meant, but the average user (or for that matter, installer) doesn't differentiate between the LNB, the F , and/or the switch.

 

[BobaBird]

For the benefit of the average user, the long explanation of the F you're talking about :shocked can be found at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/43.

 

[SimpleSimon]

The original Battlestar Galactica used "Frack" as the F-bomb. Duno about the current one - it's stacking up in my 921 for a marathon viewfest.

I forgot about the EKB - but just looked. Shame the page has broken links and other issues.

 

[BobaBird]

OK, the links are fixed. The page hadn't been touched since we gave up on the swiki site due to, as I think you just discovered, excessive down time. The page came from a posting from a Dish dealer. I'd appreciate any input you have on the other issues, here or by PM.

The people on BSG toss "frack" around as a not-so-subtle substitute for the word heard on schoolyards across the country. Enjoy the viewathon, the show's got me wondering just what the heck is going on.

 

[dfergie]

The original Battlestar Galactica used "Frack" as the F-bomb. Duno about the current one - it's stacking up in my 921 for a marathon viewfest.

I forgot about the EKB - but just looked. Shame the page has broken links and other issues.

I'm watchin um as soon as they appear... or that I can get to them, tues nite is sci fi friday for me....

 

[SimpleSimon]

BobaBird: The EKB in general needs a LOT of updating.

I forget the specific items, but they were obvious upon reading it.

 

[acruther]

Well, I'm lost on what you guys are saying, but a tech came out yesterday and got it working. Apparently the previous tech guy had put an extra splitter in the line and that was causing all the problems.

Anyway, the 921 is still not bulletproof. It just crashed due to a tuner conflict...grrr...

Oh well, that's why they call it the bleeding edge!