86 mile reception possible?

[Lue]

Looking to get KETV 86 miles away. Below is my fool profile.

I am currently receiving all the green channels with a set top antenna.

Is this in the realm of possibility with an antenna in attic or a rooftop that is not over 25 feet?

Thanks for all of you pros on this forum that help people, I have learned a lot.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=1dda70a18fc3ca

 

[primestar31]

It is possible, but that distance is over the horizon, so you need to get some height. You need to get a fringe antenna, good rg-6 cabling, and a good amp. Put it outside, on your roof on a tripod at a minimum. It may not be 100%, 24/7/365, but it's doable if you want to spend the time and money and do a bit of research.

 

[Lue]

Attic install totally out of the question for 86 mile reception?

What are the latest and greatest fringe antennas that you would recommend?

Do broadcasters turn their power down at night?

 

[rdehaven]

I would say that an attic install is out of the question. I think you have the lack of co-channel interference and smooth terrain going for you. I am able to get KPXN-DT at DBm -97.9 pretty reliably at 117 miles with generally stable results. Your signal strength is DBm -100, that's pretty close to the edge.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=1ddab74c96f854

 

[Lue]

What antenna and equipment are you using?

 

[Mr Tony]

Attic install totally out of the question for 86 mile reception?

yes

Do broadcasters turn their power down at night?

no. They broadcast at the same power 24/7 unless doing maintenance

 

[rdehaven]

I cannot recall the models of the antenna or the combiner. Here's a pic of my setup for OTA. I have dedicated UHF and VHF antennas going to a combiner that was recommended here several years ago. No pre-amp do to concerns for overloading. I am using a distribution amp to feed a couple of OTA tuner's.

 

[Mr Tony]

That bottom antenna looks like a YA1713 (VHF only)....I had one of those

very nice setup

 

[Jim5506]

Your reception of WOWT and KETV is even 2 edge at 100ft AGL, with the signal only doubling from 25' to 100', height is probably too expensive for the amount of gain you get in signal.

If you want to spend the money, you could go for a very good UHF antenna like the Antennas Direct 91-XG or a Winegard HD-8800 to get maximum gain on lower UHF channels. Adding a pre-amp might be a problem because you have a couple of stations less than 15 miles away, but I would try it anyway - go with a Channel Master or Winegard - avoid the lower quality brands.

Lastly get that puppy up there as high as possible and you may have to move it around a bit to find a sweet spot, but the sweet spot for one channel may not be so sweet for another at that distance.

 

[Mr Tony]

The other thing the OP has to take into account is KSNB (which has AntennaTV as a subchannel...he mentioned that in his other thread) is on VHF Low (4) as is NBC KHAS 5

Also tvfool is wrong. KSNB is not Fox. It is My Network. So if he wants a Fox station its KFXL 51

 

[Mr Tony]

If you want to spend the money, you could go for a very good UHF antenna like the Antennas Direct 91-XG or a Winegard HD-8800 to get maximum gain on lower UHF channels. Adding a pre-amp might be a problem because you have a couple of stations less than 15 miles away, but I would try it anyway - go with a Channel Master or Winegard - avoid the lower quality brands.

But he is in a unique situation where most of the local stations are on VHF. He's got stations on 4,5,8 and 10. Only the PBS is on UHF amongst the "local" stations.
So he could try a preamp because most of Omaha is on UHF (thats 80 miles away) and use a smaller VHF antenna for the local stations. It would have to cover VHF low and High

edit" looking on solid signal there really isnt a VHF only antenna. They have 2-6 and 7-13 models.

 

[mike123abc]

I cannot recall the models of the antenna or the combiner. Here's a pic of my setup for OTA. I have dedicated UHF and VHF antennas going to a combiner that was recommended here several years ago. No pre-amp do to concerns for overloading. I am using a distribution amp to feed a couple of OTA tuner's.

View attachment 86827

The UHF antenna that you have in your photo looks a lot like the one I use (got it from Radio Shack) mine is about 9 feet long. I was able to get stations from both Dallas and Oklahoma City with it (both about 100 miles away from Wichita Falls), when I had it mounted outside at about 40'. I have it in the attic now and just use it for my local stations.

 

[rdehaven]

That bottom antenna looks like a YA1713 (VHF only)....I had one of those

very nice setup

Thanks! You are correct it is a YA1713. I also locate the receipt for the combiner. It's a Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner.

 

[pamajestic]

I cannot recall the models of the antenna or the combiner. Here's a pic of my setup for OTA. I have dedicated UHF and VHF antennas going to a combiner that was recommended here several years ago. No pre-amp do to concerns for overloading. I am using a distribution amp to feed a couple of OTA tuner's.

View attachment 86827

Your UHF antenna is a Radio Shack U-120 that has not been assembled correctly. The reflector should be right behind the dipole, moved to the left about two feet. The double boom and mast mount should be behind the reflector on the right side.

It sound like it has served you well for years, so probably not worth the time to change it now, however you would likely see a signal improvement on fringe channels if it were corrected.

 

[rdehaven]

Your UHF antenna is a Radio Shack U-120 that has not been assembled correctly. The reflector should be right behind the dipole, moved to the left about two feet. The double boom and mast mount should be behind the reflector on the right side.

It sound like it has served you well for years, so probably not worth the time to change it now, however you would likely see a signal improvement on fringe channels if it were corrected.

Good eye, thank you! This antenna was a Craigslist find and no docs were available. Looking at it now I can see the distance of the reflector is to far away from the dipole to do its job. I always wondered about the support bracket not being perpendicular.

I will fix it with the hope that the improvement will help me with the terrible co-channel interference challenges of the San Diego area.

 

[mike123abc]

Your UHF antenna is a Radio Shack U-120 that has not been assembled correctly. The reflector should be right behind the dipole, moved to the left about two feet. The double boom and mast mount should be behind the reflector on the right side.

It sound like it has served you well for years, so probably not worth the time to change it now, however you would likely see a signal improvement on fringe channels if it were corrected.

You describe how mine is, I just thought he had a different brand or something.

 

[Lue]

Moved the rabbit ears around last night and to my surprise was receiving KPTM 42.1, 42.2 out of Omaha very clear (no signal next morning) also my tv locked on channel 20 wowtv (same location as the KETV channel 22 that I am wanting) the screen was black but the tv did lock on it.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=1dda70a18fc3ca

I got these with unpowered rabbit ear antenna inside my home on 25 ft. of coax.

Would this indicate that being able to receive KETV 22 is going to be a good bet with a top of the line outdoor antenna?
What is the average gain on typical unpowered rabbit ears?
Anybody know the typical loss for an asphalt shingle and plywood roof?

Thanks to all the replies and help, I am learning a lot from you guys/gals.

 

[Lue]

anybody tried one of these? Trash or treasure?

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2415-/30-2415

 

[Bob2011]

Moved the rabbit ears around last night and to my surprise was receiving KPTM 42.1, 42.2 out of Omaha very clear (no signal next morning) also my tv locked on channel 20 wowtv (same location as the KETV channel 22 that I am wanting) the screen was black but the tv did lock on it.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda70a18fc3ca

I got these with unpowered rabbit ear antenna inside my home on 25 ft. of coax.

Would this indicate that being able to receive KETV 22 is going to be a good bet with a top of the line outdoor antenna?
What is the average gain on typical unpowered rabbit ears?
Anybody know the typical loss for an asphalt shingle and plywood roof?

Thanks to all the replies and help, I am learning a lot from you guys/gals.

At your distance the curvature of the earth puts you beyond the line of sight for the tower. Maybe 800 feet or so above your house the signals are still LOS and relatively strong. During certain weather conditions or temperature differences in layers of the atmosphere the strong signals above can bend down. At these times even small antennas can pick up stations far away and it can last for several hours.

What you experienced last night doesn't change the reality that KETV is very weak on an average day. It will take a very good antenna to have a chance at receiving it. Unfortunately most UHF antennas still have their peak gain in the higher channels so you will have to choose carefully. Also remember that TV Fool doesn't include loss for buildings or trees in front of your antenna. Just some things to think about before spending $$$ on this project.

As for roof loss it can vary with thickness and materials. I have seen 50% loss often stated for non metallic but from experience I can say its much less if the antenna can point through the ends instead of the peak.

 

[Bob2011]

anybody tried one of these? Trash or treasure?

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2415-/30-2415

I own the previous version of the $25 model which I picked up for $15 on sale to experiment with. These triboom antennas are popular in Europe and some other countries where higher frequency TV channels still exist. My guess is that the maximum gain numbers stated are either inflated or for these higher frequencies. My antenna is currently pointed at a channel 50+ miles away and it is barely watchable. Maybe another 10 feet of height and an amp would change things but I have to say its no better than a cheap 4 bay antenna. The one you are looking at is probably on par with a decent 4 bay.