I currently have a Denon 1804 receiver A/V system. The receiver is located in a rack approximately 9 ft from the television. All wiring is inside the walls. a component video cable is connected from the receiver to an outlet on the wall and another outlet is behind the television where another component video cable is attached to the TV. A dvd player is in the rack and attached to the receiver with component video cables. Everything works great. The question that I have is I am getting the 811 HD receiver and want to locate it in the rack. I was told that the bandwidth of the 1804 is only 30Mhz and not enough for HD and that the 811 should be hooked directly to the TV. Since I do want any new wires showing can I use a 2 jack 1 plug "Y" adaper cable and connect the output of both the 811 and 1804 to the wall outlet behind the rack. I will not be using the DVD at the same time as the 811. Would this be a problem?
811 tricky hook up question
- Thread starter lborges
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The 1804 cuts down on the resolution. Your 811 will output 1080i into the 1804 which will output 720p to your TV. Am using the resloutions just to demonstrate my point. The number are just for example. It will work, but you will be losing resolution.
lborges said:
lborges, 30Mhz should be enough for HD through component. Rather than obsess about bandwidth, just hook the 811 up directly to your TV and then through the 1804. If you can't see any difference between the two than don't worry about it.
If you can see a difference than you might want to consider a DVI connection, if your TV supports it.NightRyder
Here is an excellent article I found about video bandwidth.
NightRyder
A FEW WORDS FROM THE EDITORIAL OUTLAW
July, 2001
Component Video Bandwidth
We're often asked what the bandwidth will be for the component video switching in the Model 950. We're finalizing the part selection right now, and we won't know for certain until we're able to actually run objective tests. However, our target goal is to have the end result somewhere between 40 MHz and 50 MHz per channel (Y/Pr/Pb).
We know that this will cause some comment, so we're going to explain ourselves upfront on this one. Regardless of what you may read elsewhere on the internet, or attempt to calculate by multiplying various aspects of the video system together, the plain fact often ignored by many posting messages in the various forums is that the Y/Pr/Pb signals are analog, not video. (In fact, if they were digital components they would be labeled as Y/Cr/Cb, but that's a story for another day.) While they may have been digitized at one point, when you deal with them at the output of a high definition set-top or a progressive scan DVD player, you are looking at analog signals.
Depending on the origination medium, these signals are governed by a series of SMPTE standards during the production process. (SMPTE 240M for the earlier cameras and systems with 1035 line limitations, SMPTE 274M for current 1080 systems, SMPTE 296M for 720P systems and SMPTE RP 160 as the Recommended Practice for "Three-Channel Parallel Analog Component High-Definition Interface". In the consumer electronics world, these connections are guided by the EIA-770A standard.
No matter which of these standards you look at, the specification for "nominal video bandwidth" is 30 MHz. NONE of the systems by which high definition programming is produced calls for bandwidth over that figure. The "RP" for the connection of "equipment operating with analog component HDTV signals" references itself back to the Standards, but specifically mentions a 30 MHz nominal video bandwidth figure as well (RP 160-1997, paragraph 7.2.1). Similarly, the consumer electronics industry's own standard also calls for 30 MHz in each of the Y/Pr/Pb channels.
Some might say that "more is better", but in this case it simply isn't true. We've consulted with a number respected engineers in the HDTV world, and they all agree that 40 or 50 MHz in the analog connection of HDTV signals is all that you need to want. Wider bandwidth in these connections may subject the system to possible RFI/EMI interference from a variety of sources. In other words, you'd find that you have "too much of a good thing". In audio there are some who say that wide bandwidth is appropriate, but in video all you will do is run the risk of having to deal in intrusion from a variety of unwanted signals.
The conclusion: Sure, we could easily design a switching system with 50, 100 or 200 MHz bandwidth, but there is no reason to do so. Spending money on components that deliver no perceptible benefit just to claim a higher figure than internationally recognized standards call for is just silly. The Outlaws like to have fun, but not at our customers' expense.
NightRyder
A FEW WORDS FROM THE EDITORIAL OUTLAW
July, 2001
Component Video Bandwidth
We're often asked what the bandwidth will be for the component video switching in the Model 950. We're finalizing the part selection right now, and we won't know for certain until we're able to actually run objective tests. However, our target goal is to have the end result somewhere between 40 MHz and 50 MHz per channel (Y/Pr/Pb).
We know that this will cause some comment, so we're going to explain ourselves upfront on this one. Regardless of what you may read elsewhere on the internet, or attempt to calculate by multiplying various aspects of the video system together, the plain fact often ignored by many posting messages in the various forums is that the Y/Pr/Pb signals are analog, not video. (In fact, if they were digital components they would be labeled as Y/Cr/Cb, but that's a story for another day.) While they may have been digitized at one point, when you deal with them at the output of a high definition set-top or a progressive scan DVD player, you are looking at analog signals.
Depending on the origination medium, these signals are governed by a series of SMPTE standards during the production process. (SMPTE 240M for the earlier cameras and systems with 1035 line limitations, SMPTE 274M for current 1080 systems, SMPTE 296M for 720P systems and SMPTE RP 160 as the Recommended Practice for "Three-Channel Parallel Analog Component High-Definition Interface". In the consumer electronics world, these connections are guided by the EIA-770A standard.
No matter which of these standards you look at, the specification for "nominal video bandwidth" is 30 MHz. NONE of the systems by which high definition programming is produced calls for bandwidth over that figure. The "RP" for the connection of "equipment operating with analog component HDTV signals" references itself back to the Standards, but specifically mentions a 30 MHz nominal video bandwidth figure as well (RP 160-1997, paragraph 7.2.1). Similarly, the consumer electronics industry's own standard also calls for 30 MHz in each of the Y/Pr/Pb channels.
Some might say that "more is better", but in this case it simply isn't true. We've consulted with a number respected engineers in the HDTV world, and they all agree that 40 or 50 MHz in the analog connection of HDTV signals is all that you need to want. Wider bandwidth in these connections may subject the system to possible RFI/EMI interference from a variety of sources. In other words, you'd find that you have "too much of a good thing". In audio there are some who say that wide bandwidth is appropriate, but in video all you will do is run the risk of having to deal in intrusion from a variety of unwanted signals.
The conclusion: Sure, we could easily design a switching system with 50, 100 or 200 MHz bandwidth, but there is no reason to do so. Spending money on components that deliver no perceptible benefit just to claim a higher figure than internationally recognized standards call for is just silly. The Outlaws like to have fun, but not at our customers' expense.
As pictured in the user manual I hooked up my dvd player and vcr to the back of my 811 input which is hooked to my Toshiba 57" HDTV with a DVI cable. When I change the 811 channel to view the "back panel video input 1 and 2" connection for the dvd and vcr player the picture is very grainy and definately not very good by any standard. Has anyone tried this type of connection and if so do you have the same horribble results. any recomendations?
8ohms said:
This is not a fault of your connections or cabling. The 811 is renown for absolutely terrible analog performance in both the OTA tuner and rear panel inputs. If possible, use another switching device, such as an A/V receiver.
gpflepsen said:
Are you kidding me? I like the quality of the OTA and HD satellite picture I've been receiving but if like you said the 811 in known for giving such terrible picture quality from it's output then DISH ows all the HD subscribers an apopogy and a promised receiver upgrade. They want to get paid on time every month, the consumers want quality equipment.
8ohms said:
You should re-read what Gerry wrote, which pointed out the terrible quality of the analog INPUTS, as well as the ANALOG OTA TUNER, of the 811. It goes without saying, of course, that both of those things are not HD or digital or even outputs.
Most people are happy with the HD and digital OTA PQ. But, if you like what you see when using either the analog inputs or analog OTA tuner, then I might suggest a visit to the optometrist.
WJMorales said:
the 1804 does not change the resolution, it passes through whatever it is fed up to 30mhz which is plenty for 1080i
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ajaynejr/bandwid.htm
http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showthread.php?t=2217&highlight=bandwidth+minimum
As the other posters have stated, the analog video performance of the 811 leaves a lot to be desired. Chances are, your DVD player has component outputs. If your Toshiba has DVI, it should have two component inputs (probably labeled as "ColorStream(tm)" The Toshiba's 3:2 pulldown is great; I cannot see any difference between my DVD player (RP56) when I switch it between progressive and interlaced. Also, if your set is 16:9 (widescreen), you really owe it to yourself to set the DVD player to 16:9 output and watch DVDs as good as it gets.8ohms said:
After you route your DVD through the Tosh's component input, go ahead and leave the VCR through the 811. It will still look like cr@p, but that's VHS for you... Or, switch it to one of the Toshiba's video inputs, and let the Toshiba scale it (again, it does a better job than the 811 will).
