4 Receivers Gone Bad in 2 Months - Am Mystified

[tecminn]

We have two separate receivers (DP311). They do not share an electrical outlet. They are on two different floors and the power going to them is controlled by two different breakers. They are both plugged into very good surge protectors.

3 weeks before Christmas they both quit at around 2am. When Dish people came out they replaced both receivers because that was the only way to resolve the problem. (I know because I followed him thru the whole house annoying him with questions.) The ‘eye’ was replaced on the satellite. Wiring was checked but nothing worked until a new receiver was used.

It is now February 4th and this morning at 4am I lost the signal on both receivers again. The only thing in common (Dec Loss and February Loss) was I chose to work upstairs and had my computer plugged into the surge protector in the living room.

Logically that should not cause BOTH receivers to go bad since they are on separate circuits but I am mystified as to what could be causing this problem and how it can be affecting both receivers that do not share a common electric hookup (circuit breaker)?

Has anyone else experienced this type of situation?

2 receivers
Separate electric sources
Both lose the ability to find the signal at the same time

I would appreciate any input you may have.

Thank you,

Carol

 

[RandallA]

Run a check switch and see if that works. Menu, 6, 1, 1, Check Switch.

Is the system grounded? You'll probably need an electrician to check the electrical outlets and circuits. That doesn't sound normal.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Dish will keep on replacing them as they go bad, I would suggest getting a good surge protector made by panamax and that should eliminate the problem!

All my equipment is on surge protectors and they rarely go bad!

 

[boba]

What failed? Do the receivers still power up (green light on) do you have an on screen display such as aquiring signal? What weather conditions did you have with both failures?

 

[tecminn]

I have everything on surge protectors and the screen comes up as acquiring signal.

I have done the switch test, the reset button thingy and Dish is telling me that because it is a 'signal' message that the problem should be from the dish to the house and not electrical.

But, it just 'feels' odd if that makes sense. What I am doing now is purchasing battery backups so the electricity won't be a factor.

Dish is coming out on Friday so its TV on DVD for this week (and here Lorelai is getting back together with Luke on Tuesday - maybe).


Carol

 

[ts7]

If it is a grounding issue, running through the UPS systems might not help. My guess is a possible problem with the ground on the dish itself or possibly the surge blocks. I am not a Dish installer, but I have done a fair amount of elecrtical work and know that if there are multiple grounding points on a system that are not bonded together, ground loops can be formed and take out sensitive electronic equipment. In the case of a satellite system, I believe there can be 4 or more places where the system connects to ground (the dish mount, the grounding block where it enters the building, the AC on the Dish, and the phone line). If these are not all bonded, then the electricity will follow the shortest point to ground and that might just happen to be through your satellite equipment.

If there is a grounding problem, don't immediately place the blame on your Dish installer. I have seen a lot of buildings where the internal grounding systems are not bonded properly and have actually measured as much as 400 volts between two *supposed* grounds.

 

[tecminn]

Thanks!

I have been with Dish from like their inception and have been very happy with them. And since my husband was the one who originally put up the very first Satellite it makes it difficult to 'blame' Dish <grin>.

Since that day we have put out our service by:
1) drilling a hole in the ceiling (and straight thru the cable)
2) forgetting a cable hadn't been buried yet and ran it over with a lawn mower
3) a cat who likes the crawl spaces and likes to eat our cables

I am just happy to have something to suggest and this would explain the very odd (doesnt happen often) almost inaudible click I hear every once so often in the very area that I plug my computer into.


Thanks way much!

Carol

 

[papalittle]

house grounding, no ground wires in older home at outlets, faulty grounding at power panel.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I agree, I'd look at the grounding first. To lose two receivers simultaneously twice, with them on different breakers, and lose nothing else in the house means you look for the commonality of the two receivers. That commonality is their connection to the dish and your grounding.

 

[Jordan420]

I also agree w/ the grounding issue since both receivers are on seperate circuits & went out at the same time.

You say everything is protected by surge protectors, & none of your other equipment has been affected, so I would guess the problem is coming down the sat lines.

Do your surce protectors have connections for cable/sat feeds &/or phone lines? Some do & some do not. Look at this one as an example it has phone & coax protection also

http://www.buy.com/prod/APC_PF11VT3...or_With_Phone_Coaxial/q/loc/101/10354357.html

 

[Mike500]

It's called a floating ground. The main system ground is bad at the panel. Voltage fuctuates to an extreme voltage drop, when there is a high draw on the other leg of the 220 VAC pair.

 

[tecminn]

Panel?

Mike500 Wrote:
"It's called a floating ground. The main system ground is bad at the panel. Voltage fuctuates to an extreme voltage drop, when there is a high draw on the other leg of the 220 VAC pair."

The word panel is my circuit breaker panel yes?

Jordan420 Wrote: "Do your surce protectors have connections for cable/sat feeds &/or phone lines? Some do & some do not. Look at this one as an example it has phone & coax protection also"

I do not keep a phone line attached to the receiver so that has never been an issue.

I am printing all this stuff out to show both the husband and the service person.

Thank you ever so much.

Carol

 

[SmityWhity]

Panel is the electrical panel with the circuit breakers, but it could either be a main panel, sub-panel, or both.

On the surge protector.... even though no phone line is connected, do you feed the coax cable from the dish to the receiver through the surge protector.

......My thoughts.

Clicking at the surge protector with the computer plugged in. I wonder if the computer affected the surge protector, damage one receiver and then went to the other receiver.

Been with Dish a long time....

What type of dish/LNBF/switch are you using?
Maybe the switch is going bad, and it just happened to start working again after the receivers were replaced.

Try removing power from both receivers, and TV's, wait a short period of time, and then plug them back in. But they must all be powered down during the same period.
That is, don't power one down and back up and then do the other; but instead have both at one time to ensure all power is removed from the circuits.

 

[Jordan420]

I do not keep a phone line attached to the receiver so that has never been an issue.

Well what I am getting at , are your sat feeds run through the surge protector or not?

 

[tecminn]

I misunderstood - Sat Feeds & Commonality

No they are hooked directly to the receiver. Not thru the surge.

We signed up with Dish back in 1999? but upgraded to the Dish 500 when it came out. We actually used the same receiver tho until this past December when it and the new one went at the same time.

They/we replaced the 'eye' in December and were provided with two new receivers and everything was great until yesterday.

Commonality - that really got me thinking

1) Oct/Nov put new electric socket w/3 holes to replace the old one w/2 holes because it was a pain to plug a computer in the wall socket across the room.

2) a few weeks later using the new 3/hole wall socket sparks came out of the side of my laptop where the ac adapter plugs-in. Because I had a notebook surge in between the wall and the laptop I lost the cord but the computer was ok.

2a) did NOT connect the dots - I assumed it was a faulty cord and didnt think about it again.

3) a couple of weeks later, working upstairs using same electric socket (but different computer) around 2am I heard a very small click. Preoccupied with getting the work done I shrugged it off as the house reacting to the cold spell. I had a DVD movie playing so didnt realize the satellite was lost until movie was over. Went downstairs to my office and found that I had also lost the signal on the 2nd receiver. This was 3 weeks before Christmas.

3a) It still has not occurred to me that the new socket might be the problem.

4) Dish came out and installed new receivers and a new line above ground. Everything worked great.

5) This morning at approximately 4am I was using same electric socket but working with a desktop and LCD monitor on a portable stand (both plugged into a surge protector) and my hand hit the cord on the LCD and it was HOT! Almost simultaneously the circuit breaker popped and the power went out one side of the living room. Again, watching DVD movie and did not realize until a bit later that the signal had been lost on the Dish, went downstairs and same thing, no signal.

Common factor when loss has occurred - same electric socket and using surge protector.

Oddity - have used same socket without a surge protector for short periods and have not had a problem.

I have read much today about electricity, older homes, 2-wire homes using 3-pronged sockets and ground loops(?).

Because I have anywhere from 3-8 computers, 4-10 monitors, TV, DVD player, 3 printers, etc., etc. running everyday in my office and never have a problem that tells me the wiring/plugs/grounds are all just fine going from my office to the rest of the house.

Because the problem did not exist until the past 4-5 months during the 'new plug' period that would lead one to assume there is a problem with the electric socket itself.

BUT the fact that it travels from the living room (taking out the first receiver) and ends in my office (taking out the second receiver) that indicates there is a problem leading from the house into my office? Not expecting a response - mostly just organizing my thoughts.

It has been a very long 4-5 months.



Carol

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[ts7]

Sounds like you are getting closer!

It sure sounds like the problem is related to your house wiring. This could be a bigger issue than just fried receivers (especially if your cords are hot). I wonder if the "clicks" you are hearing are actually some kind of electrical arcing. You could possibly have a very dangerous situation and might be well worth your while to have a qualified electrician take a look.

 

[Jordan420]

I agree w/ts7, your problem goes much deeper than your dish not being grounded. Sat feeds through a surge protector will not fix your problem.

Sorry, this is beyond what I know(like most things)


Jordan

 

[tecminn]

Except for Ice Cream

I find that most things are beyond my scope also.

On a positive note, every room except for the livingroom has been gutted and new wiring (only took 15 years) so worse case we would just have to take care of the one room and move into the kitchen.



Have a great week!

Carol

 

[tecminn]

Found Problem & Solution

Since yesterday was Sunday I did not have a hardware store open.

I purchased a plug checker today and the problem turned out to be.......drumroll


HOT/NUE. REVERSE

My sweet husband had reversed the wires.

I love this little yellow plug checker thingy.

 

[FredC]

Please keep in mind you still need to check to make sure you have a good ground. Not to offend, but maybe this is something you should have an electrican do. It can bite you! Even with surge protectors, if you have a bad ground, you might as well not use the surge protector! Have it checked soon! :]