1000.2 dish pointing question

[RTCDude]

Folks,

I've had a 1000.2 dish for about a year now. When I first set it up, I could never it get aligned properly so that 129 come in. Instead, I had the classic problem of getting 119 on the 129 horn, and 110 on the 119 horn. This hasn't been a problem up to now since I only had two 5xx receivers that really didn't need 129. But since I had already spent too many hours trying to align the dish, I just left it with this misaligned, but acceptable alignment.

Now I'm not a professional installer, but over the course of the last dozen years or so I've installed 50 or more Dish or Direct systems for family, friends, and friends of friends. I've always been very meticulous with mounting alignment. Hence, I've always been able to hit the correct bird within about fifteen minutes or less with just a compass (with the exception of one dish that was bent). So I was always very perplexed as to why it seems impossible for me to align this 1000.2. This was however the first 1000.2 I had attempted, and just figured there was just something I was doing wrong.

This January I replaced my 501 with a 722, and now wanted the 129 bird. After many hours of frustrating adjusting and readjusting, I finally lucked out and happened to hit all three birds properly.

The issue had been the elevation. The pointing table instructions that came the dish said to use 46 degrees elevation for my ZIP, 95037. Now we all know that the real elevation can vary by a degree or two, and I took that into account in my previous alignment attempts. However, the actual peaked elevation turned out to be 51 degrees (which is far further than I ever tried, and why I never found it).

That brings up the question, has anyone else seen these printed tables being so far off? This was a brand new dish and didn't seem to be defective in any way.

 

[Fredinva]

NOPE!!!
The tables aren't off, BUT post Plumbness is.

Even after the post is plumbed, the heavier Dish has a tendancy to pull it off a couple degrees sometimes.

fred

 

[Skibum]

Yes, the printed measurements are usually off by a little bit, but I would think that much difference is due to your mast not being perfectly plumb and level. You probably have the skew set as well, but the 129 sits at a lower elevation than the 110/119. Perhaps that was also a factor?

 

[Jim5506]

If you get 119 on the 129 lnb and 119 on the 110 lnb, you are off in azimuth by about 9 degrees. Move the dish 8-9 degrees right and drop the elevation a degree or two.

 

[RandallA]

"You probably have the skew set as well, but the 129 sits at a lower elevation than the 110/119."

That depends on your location. Here in the West coast, 129 is 1 or 2 degrees higher than 110.

To the OP, looks like your mast is not plumb and that's why your elevation is way off. Having said that, yes for a 1000.2 the tables are off maybe 1 or 2 degrees.

 

[Skibum]

That depends on your location. Here in the West coast, 129 is 1 or 2 degrees higher than 110.

I see! The satellite map in my head becomes that much more clear. Thanks!

 

[highdefjeff]

I see! The satellite map in my head becomes that much more clear. Thanks!

I find the 500's to be just shy of two degrees off, with a similar adjustment needed on the 1000+.

But, a picture is worth a thousand words:


What does a dish "see"?- Picture Examples

 

[RTCDude]

"You probably have the skew set as well, but the 129 sits at a lower elevation than the 110/119."

That depends on your location. Here in the West coast, 129 is 1 or 2 degrees higher than 110.

To the OP, looks like your mast is not plumb and that's why your elevation is way off. Having said that, yes for a 1000.2 the tables are off maybe 1 or 2 degrees.

As I hinted in my first post, I was very careful to make sure my mast was perfectly plumb. What I forget to say was that the skew I got after peaking was exactly what the tables said, 87 degress, and the azimuth was almost exactly what the tables said (161 tables, 160 peaked). So the only value that was off was the elevation. Which was the situation that I've never seen before, where one value was way off.

I would be surprised if the weight of the dish would sag the mast several degrees, it is rock solid. However, I will check and see.

BTW, I was already aware of the 22.5 offset between the perceived and actual sat location; with the perceived angle always being 90 degrees from the plane of the dish. That does bring up a question though. Is the elevation angle referenced from the perceived or actual sat angle? If it is from the actual, then the degree markings on the dish should had a 22.5 degree offset from the plane of the dish.

 

[RandallA]

"If it is from the actual, then the degree markings on the dish should had a 22.5 degree offset from the plane of the dish."

This is correct. The markings already have the 22.5 degree offset from the plane of the dish. I don't think your situation has anything to do with the 22.5 degree offset.

If you say the mast is plumb then there's something going on with the surface where is mounted. Where exactly is the mast mounted?

 

[RTCDude]

If you say the mast is plumb then there's something going on with the surface where is mounted. Where exactly is the mast mounted?

On the south gable of my new house right at the base of the rafter line. When the house was built I made sure that wall had a doubled 2x6 stringer across the entire base of the rafter line. The mast is mounted with 4" 5/16" bolts (not lag screws which lossen as the wood shrinks) through that stringer and the outside cladding board. I made sure this surface isn't moving unles the house falls down.

 

[Fredinva]

I would be surprised if the weight of the dish would sag the mast several degrees, it is rock solid. However, I will check and see.

.

Actually, there is enough 'slop' in the dish and mount construction/design that the dish can sag a bit. (and it's much worse with a pivoting eave mount).
You haven't mentioned whether or not you are using a meter at the dish, much easier using a meter. Minor adjustments are easier to make. In some instances, if you know you are well tightened all around, you can actually force the dish in the direction you need for best signal. It works for me - no call backs!!!

fred

 

[RTCDude]

Actually, there is enough 'slop' in the dish and mount construction/design that the dish can sag a bit. (and it's much worse with a pivoting eave mount).
You haven't mentioned whether or not you are using a meter at the dish, much easier using a meter. Minor adjustments are easier to make. In some instances, if you know you are well tightened all around, you can actually force the dish in the direction you need for best signal. It works for me - no call backs!!!

fred

As I indicated above, my installation point is as solid as any new construction can be.

And no, I've never used a meter for peaking. My "equipment" consists of a card table, a 50' coil of RG6, a 100 foot extension cord, an old 13" B&W portable TV, and the actual sat receiver. Mount the dish in the correct place, drop the RG6 down to the card table with the receiver and portable TV, turn up the sound and align the dish. After finshed peaking, install the real RG6 run into the house (also, grounds and finishing details).

Not really appropriate for a professional installer, but for the few dishes I have installed per year as a favor, it's a low equipment method. When I'm done, it looks like a pro install (I just like doing a good job). However, I am a wimp that I only do easy installs. No "three story, four dish, install the receiver in the basement" setups. I leave the hard ones for the pros.

 

[Fredinva]

Ditch the extension cord and B&W tv.

use a cell phone or two - lol

fred

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

Your mounting is just fine. What other have tried to say and I will also say is that your mount is not the problem but the pole that dish uses can itself sag. When you put the 1000.2 on there it is heavy enough that the pole will move just a bit. On mine I purposely angled the pole just a tad so when the dish was it was perfectly plumb.

To be hitting the wrong birds on each lnb you have to be way off however. Double check your pole and then readjust your specs. Elevation can be changed to get the strongest signal. Your skew is the most important to hit all 3 birds.

 

[Jim5506]

Move the dish 8-9 degrees right and up 1-2 degrees. Your mast is plumb enough get the azimuth right.