Dish dispute with Cox Media Group

[TazMan258]

By law, Channel 7, WHIO-TV must negotiate carriage agreements with satellite companies like DISH.

Usually, these deals are reached without any disruption to your service. In fact, our company has negotiated dozens of agreements with only the rarest of disruptions. Unfortunately, so far, DISH has refused to reach a fair, market-based deal to carry Channel 7, WHIO-TV.

Our existing agreement with DISH expires at 7 PM on March 31, 2016. If no deal is reached before that date, you will lose live access to the shows, sports and local news on Channel 7, WHIO-TV, which you rely on and are paying for. We are continuing to negotiate with DISH, but DISH has refused to agree to reasonable terms for the valuable programming we provide.

http://www.whio.com/news/online/whio-tv-and-dish-network/nqtpt/?ecmp=whiotv_social_facebook_2014_sfp

 

[Mr Tony]

Stations owned by cox

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=owner_search&owner=Cox

 

[osu1991]

http://www.fox23.com/news/dish-network-customers-could-lose-fox23/185583773

gotta love this quote in their FAQ

http://www.fox23.com/about-fox23/dish-network-faq

DISH should stop over-paying for channels its customers do not watch and re-allocate that money to the channels, like FOX23, that its subscribers turn to every day.

 

[Tampa8]

I give them credit for a new approach... or at least stating it a different way.

 

[sam_gordon]

Who's the idiot at Dish that allowed three (Comcast, Cox, Media General) contracts to come up for renewal at the same time?

 

[Tampa8]

First, that might not be such a bad thing. Have disputes spread out so it happens all time or get it all at once and be done with them. Remember by far most do not last long if they even ever do go off. Second, Media General at the time of the first contract did not own Lin media or Merideth, just as Nexstar did not own All of that prior to now. Point being worrying when a small company comes up for contract wouldn't be on the radar.

 

[sam_gordon]

First, that might not be such a bad thing. Have disputes spread out so it happens all time or get it all at once and be done with them. Remember by far most do not last long if they even ever do go off. Second, Media General at the time of the first contract did not own Lin media or Merideth, just as Nexstar did not own All of that prior to now. Point being worrying when a small company comes up for contract wouldn't be on the radar.

I think it's been a long time since any of the three were considered "small" companies. Having disputes with large (at least medium) owners also risks having multiple stations in a market come down at the same time. So instead of losing just an NBC, a viewer may lose NBC, Fox, and CW. That might spur that viewer to leave Dish whereas if it was just a single channel, they might stick around. Also from a business standpoint, it stands to reason after the negotiation Dish will be spending more money on retransmission (probably not as much as the station owner wants, but still an increase). So Dish now has a larger bill all at one time instead of three smaller increases. Last but not least, I think Dish should be able to look at past history on whether the channels had to go dark and for how long. Didn't MG channels black out for a week the last time (I might be wrong on that one)? If so, it stands to reason the owners would be willing to have the channels pulled again.

Sorry, I still don't think it's a wise business decision and I'm not affected (none of the companies own locals in my market), except by the Comcast cable holdings (NBCSN, etc).

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I love this line...

Naturally, we cannot give away our product for less than it is worth.

But don't they they give it away for FREE to anyone with an OTA Antenna? Only thing DISH does is helps them get more viewers for those who dont want to fuss with Antennas.

 

[thomasjk]

Our local ABC is running the crawl this morning. I have OTA so no big deal.

 

[sam_gordon]

Only thing DISH does is helps them get more viewers for those who dont want to fuss with Antennas.

Let's not forget the LiL benefit Dish just as well. Take away LiL and see what happens to Dish's (any MVPD) subscriber base.
Also, only a small percentage (maybe 15%) of viewers utilize OTA.

ETA: No, I don't think owners should get whatever they ask for. But who gets to determine what's "reasonable"? If 4 MVPDs are willing to pay $1.00/subscriber (just a sample number), should #5 be allowed to purchase at $0.50/subscriber? That's why all of these PR campaigns include the line "We've reached agreements with other providers".

 

[ralfyguy]

I love this line...



But don't they they give it away for FREE to anyone with an OTA Antenna? Only thing DISH does is helps them get more viewers for those who dont want to fuss with Antennas.

And besides that, they're not giving anything away. The rake in MILLIONS from advertising that you can't miss watching their channel, unless you use a DVR.
But correct, their argument is pathetic, it's not even an argument. How stupid do they think people are?

 

[TheKrell]

And besides that, they're not giving anything away. The rake in MILLIONS from advertising that you can't miss watching their channel, unless you use a DVR. But correct, their argument is pathetic, it's not even an argument. How stupid do they think people are?

I have wondered that myself. Whenever I go on vacation, I'm in a hotel or beach house with cable TV and no DVR. I find it just about impossible to watch anything (other than PBS) because of the wall-to-wall commercials. I think the fraction of a program devoted to commercials used to be much less than it is now. We who have DVRs are largely insulated from this onslaught. But what do "normal" people do? Why do they continue to watch TV when there is so little of their program left, and it's all chopped up so mercilessly?

 

[dare2be]

I think the fraction of a program devoted to commercials used to be much less than it is now.

As one who has collected old tv shows on DVD can attest:

hour-long uncut shows:
late 60s: 51 minutes in length
late 70s: 48 minutes in length
mid 80s: 46 minutes in length
mid 90s: 43 minutes in length
now: lucky if we get even 40 minurtes of content

 

[ralfyguy]

I have wondered that myself. Whenever I go on vacation, I'm in a hotel or beach house with cable TV and no DVR. I find it just about impossible to watch anything (other than PBS) because of the wall-to-wall commercials. I think the fraction of a program devoted to commercials used to be much less than it is now. We who have DVRs are largely insulated from this onslaught. But what do "normal" people do? Why do they continue to watch TV when there is so little of their program left, and it's all chopped up so mercilessly?

Exactly. I even wondered myself at how many times in a show I have to hit skip anymore. It is mind boggling.
I came home from work last night and watched NBC Nightly News live.
It was horrible. On each topic Lester Holt was speaking perhaps 30 seconds tops and then was at least 3-5 minutes commercials. And then they repeat the same damn crap over and over.
I am one of those who is insanely stubborn. The more I see a commercial trying to get hammered into my head, the less likely I will consider the product. There is some places I will never go, just because they tried to force it upon me too many times.
But back on topic. I would even go that far to say that I wonder how many affiliates would not exist anymore if they didn't have Dish or Direct or other retransmitted, because of the increased revenue through commercials from companies because of the increase in viewers.
Take away the retransmissions and solely rely on OTA nowadays. The consequences would have to be dramatic in this day and age
I cannot believe that this is even lawful in a way. They should PAY Dish and CO to retransmit their commercial infested crap because they would be off way worse without them.

 

[sam_gordon]

They should PAY Dish and CO to retransmit their commercial infested crap because they would be off way worse without them.

So why does ESPN get to charge $6/subscriber? They sell ads too, and without MVPDs, there would be ZERO people watching. Heck, the only stations not relying on commercials are HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc. According to your logic, all the channels should be paying MVPDs.

ETA: MVPDs would also be WAY worse off without LiL. DSS didn't become a valid competitor to cable until they started LiL. Yes, they had some subscribers, but their numbers exploded when LiL came into being.

Also, when someone considers "cutting the cord", usually one of the first suggestions is to see what they can pick up OTA.

 

[dare2be]

Maybe not paying, but low-ball bidding to be put in lower tiers to get more potential viewer numbers.

That's how it would work in a truly competitive free market. Not so with the current extortion ring system we have now.

 

[tedb3rd]

Some people, no wait actually a lot of people, live too far away to get OTA reception. The stupid part is that they're allowed to charge for what is otherwise 'free' OTA. If I were president, I would make a law that limit how much OTA available stations charge and cap it at 'operating cost' for equipment/maintenance to get the signal from the carrier to the rebroadcaster... and also the rebroadcaster can only charge customer for that same amount. There, problem solved.

 

[The Fat Man]

I don't get how WFXT is lumped in this. The station had a deal with Dish when they were a FOX O&O. Was WFXT part of the last FOX agreement before being sold to Cox Media? If so, then Cox shouldn't be threatening to pull it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Some people, no wait actually a lot of people, live too far away to get OTA reception. The stupid part is that they're allowed to charge for what is otherwise 'free' OTA. If I were president, I would make a law that limit how much OTA available stations charge and cap it at 'operating cost' for equipment/maintenance to get the signal from the carrier to the rebroadcaster... and also the rebroadcaster can only charge customer for that same amount. There, problem solved.

First, while some people can't receive OTA, the majority (by FAR) can.
Second, I have a couple ideas on what I think "should" happen...

1. Have a specific rate (whether set by negotiation, Congress, or arbitration) per subscriber based on ratings. If a station gets high ratings, they should get paid more for it. If you have low ratings, you don't make as much. Then it's just an argument of "how much".
2. Have a set rate (again, various ways to determine that) per subscriber that applies for ALL MVPDs. So Cox (for example) doesn't negotiate with Dish, Direct, TW, Comcast, etc. It's a flat fee known to everyone.
3. Set a rate, but subscribers outside OTA range don't have to pay (I don't know if you manage that by county, Grade B contour, or what).

But, since I'm not in a position to mandate these, I live with what we have.

 

[Bobby]

If I were president, I would make a law that limit how much OTA available stations charge and cap it at 'operating cost' for equipment/maintenance to get the signal from the carrier to the rebroadcaster... and also the rebroadcaster can only charge customer for that same amount. There, problem solved.

Just a reality check. If you were president you would, maybe, make suggestions to Congress to enact a law. We've seen how well that goes for these last 8 years. Yeah, we have something called Executive Action but it isn't going to cover this universe....

Now back to our paid OTA discussion...