I'm hoping their might be someone technical enough to understand what I am requesting here. Since I moved to the Palm Springs area, several of the channels that I receive via the OTA antenna do not display any programming information. Note, this is only a select group of channels as some other OTA's (even ones not offered by Dish) come through fine. All of the PSIP information is broadcast and received on regular digital tV's but for some reason, while the channel signals are strong, the grid (programming description) information does not make it across. The station managers are baffled because they say it's fine on the Digital TV's they see, but for some reason whatever methodology that Dish uses does not work.
OTA Grid Issues
- Thread starter xwiseguyx
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Dish does not extract PSIP data. It relies on a third party data provider for their guide. That provider may not be suppling data for those channels.
Common complaint. Dish doesn't use the psip data and doesn't provide guide data for many subchannels
AFAIK it comes from Tribune. But I thinK tribume provides the data but DISH does not use it alWhile I hope you do get your data included I am skeptical that it will hapen.l. There are several threads discussing this issue.
Knowing how Dish does or does not provide guide data for subchannels or even main channels it doesn't carry, this first image is troubling. KCWG 002-0 is obviously carried by Dish, but its OTA counterpart, 002-1 does not have guide data. This is the first instance I've seen where the main channel carried by Dish has data but the same main OTA version does not.
I believe the problem is KCWG is not 2.1 OTA it is 2.3. It isn't a separate station, it is a sub channel of KESQ. It appears to me to be SD OTA not HD. Adding to that it may be a LP transmission being repeated at 2.3.
2.1 is in High Definition and 2.3 (not included in the picture I submitted) is in SD (and does have the guide). If anyone has a confirmation on the 3rd party provider and how the whole process works where Dish can choose to include or not include, it would be appreciated. I was told that they just accept the signals that are sent to them... which I know is ridiculous.
I would just like to try and understand the process for Dish providing the data. It seems as if there would have to be some type of rhyme or reason to allowing this data to display. Such as a 3rd party provider sending it to dish....
All we know is it's a 3rd party provider sending it to Dish. Tribune/Gracenote, I believe. Beyond that, it's all a wild guess.
Maybe that's part of the reason DTV doesn't even support OTA integration anymore. Too many variables that cause headaches for all.
That isn't to say I don't appreciate having integrated OTA with my DVR. It saves me from having to own/use a different device for channels that aren't on Dish. There are enough ways to get around the headaches that make OTA recording and scheduling more beneficial than not.
Maybe that's part of the reason DTV doesn't even support OTA integration anymore. Too many variables that cause headaches for all.
That isn't to say I don't appreciate having integrated OTA with my DVR. It saves me from having to own/use a different device for channels that aren't on Dish. There are enough ways to get around the headaches that make OTA recording and scheduling more beneficial than not.
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You can no longer integrate an OTA signal with DirecTV DVR's because AM21 OTA units are no longer available and from what I hear will soon not be supported.
I think that this is a rare instance of OTA guide data that Dish will fix. My guess is that this station changed their TSID value at some point and that value doesn't match what Dish looks for. Stations typically don't mess with the primary channel....
Here's a thread to share the issues you're encountering. Don't worry that it's 5+ years old.... The problems still exist in almost all cases. Effectively, rarely is Dish fixing these.
It looks like I finally got to the bottom of things with Dish. They aren't carrying any new OTA offerings at this time (meaning guide data) due to capacity issues. (I spoke with someone who seemed to be in the know on how these things happen) They hope to upgrade their systems later in order to do so but it doesn't sound like anything that will happen in the near future. Oh well... at least I can close this chapter for now and call this a learning experience. They will look into the one issue with one of the CBS Channels displaying FOX shows so I guess that's something.
Hahaha ! They bullsh***ed you with that one ! We've heard that for years. Think about it: Guide data is just plain text. Further, it can be compressed for sending and uncompressed at the receiver. The amount of 'data' involved is miniscule.
They aren't investing resources in OTA guide data because it has no monetary benefit to them.
Maybe the new OTA adapter will decode theTSID ?
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No, Dish uses the TSID. The presumption of how it works is this:
1) Dish has a "list" of OTA stations from the 2008-2011 timeframe
2) That "list" includes each station's unique TSID
3) Dish matches the TSID read by the OTA adapter to their "list", matches that to the guide data they receive from (insert guide provider here)
4) Dish displays the guide data
The problems:
1) No one at Dish maintains this list anymore*
2) Stations add channels on occasion
3) Stations change their TSID on occasion
4) ?
5) ?
* That's only partly true, I'll admit. They (almost always) seem to fix an issue when it's related to the primary channel (the -1) as it's almost always the network affiliate that they carry on satellite.
What happens when a station adds a channel or changes the TSID of an existing channel is there's no match in Dish's list, so they just display the station's call letters, "Digital Service", etc (it varies by receiver).
Years ago, you could post details when a channel was added or a glitch like the station changed the TSID and it would get fixed. In the case of the TSID changing, sometimes you could contact the station and they'd realize they inadvertently changed it, they change it back, and the guide data returns.
In the case of an existing channel that changes from MeTV to "?", as long as it existed before 2011 or so, nothing had to be done. The guide data would show up. There could sometimes be a delay but this would be the fault of the station (for not providing the new data to the guide providers) or the guide providers (for not updating their systems.
1) Dish has a "list" of OTA stations from the 2008-2011 timeframe
2) That "list" includes each station's unique TSID
3) Dish matches the TSID read by the OTA adapter to their "list", matches that to the guide data they receive from (insert guide provider here)
4) Dish displays the guide data
The problems:
1) No one at Dish maintains this list anymore*
2) Stations add channels on occasion
3) Stations change their TSID on occasion
4) ?
5) ?
* That's only partly true, I'll admit. They (almost always) seem to fix an issue when it's related to the primary channel (the -1) as it's almost always the network affiliate that they carry on satellite.
What happens when a station adds a channel or changes the TSID of an existing channel is there's no match in Dish's list, so they just display the station's call letters, "Digital Service", etc (it varies by receiver).
Years ago, you could post details when a channel was added or a glitch like the station changed the TSID and it would get fixed. In the case of the TSID changing, sometimes you could contact the station and they'd realize they inadvertently changed it, they change it back, and the guide data returns.
In the case of an existing channel that changes from MeTV to "?", as long as it existed before 2011 or so, nothing had to be done. The guide data would show up. There could sometimes be a delay but this would be the fault of the station (for not providing the new data to the guide providers) or the guide providers (for not updating their systems.
