[Illinois] hd radio question

1)Thank you to the post with the kind words. (Blindowl1234)

2) Scott, you are 100 percent correct, you pay your competition! This is also a problem developing in NEWS DISTRIBUTION in the same vein. If a station wants a network, they're either going to pay (by barter) Clear Channel/Premier distribution, or like us, CBS, CNBC, Osgood, and many other shows all are distributed by "Townsquare" which is the old Cumulus, which bought Westwood One which distributes many of the networks that are NOT on the competition (Premier.) In this country, there exists a real problem in HOW local media gets its "larger" media. Startup networks are near none, anyone starting one needs mass distribution, and these two are the ONLY way to get most feeds for news and syndicated shows. Thus, any commercials played during these shows or outside the programs ("barter") literally pay the "big radio companies" who ARE indeed, competition to the little subscribing stations!

Back to the thread, HD is indeed dying on AM. There "seems" to be a resurgence in AM stereo analog, and I'm proud to say I think, in the USA, our little station led the pack by streaming it. It takes no licensing, and even when heard on a standard (decent bandwidth) AM receiver sounds better than MOST mono AM broadcasts. My theory is that those in stereo on AM pay better attention to their air chains and processing. With Commissioner Pai's attention to AM, and more general awareness of the battles for AM in the eyes of the FCC, there is some excitement in being on the AM band again. I've maintained when the FCC wants to know what would revitalize us, that a "Public awareness campaign" on behalf of (AM) all local radio in general would help! Consider what they invested in the digital TV conversion campaign! If "Local radio" was given this boost, the FCC may see a slight increase in their yearly regulatory fees and other fees required for station upgrades, changes, and improvements. A longshot, perhaps, but...it would be logical to assume that an improvement in local radio interest across the USA will eventually translate back into more investment by owners and a resurgence in ad revenue, too!

I don't hear of many FM's shutting down their HD's if they have them, usually they are used in an attempt to either "add" another format to the market, or to originate a signal used for translation via a small FM signal. (the loophole mentioned.) I don't see these going away (HD) any time soon, those who have them will pay for them and maintain them, but the drawbacks of their "actual" on air reception have been well covered here. A stationary radio with a good antenna is a good option for improved variety in programming, but may not be heard as any improvement over a well done analog FM.

Sorry to get so "wordy" folks, Love this part of the site!!!

I don't claim to know anything about the radio business but I'll say this. AM, FM, and Sirius or XM are the only radios in the vast majority of cars on the road. GM still isn't putting HD radios in most of their fully loaded vehicles. It's not part of the MyLink touch radio on my 2014 Chevy Cruze or the similar IntelliLink touch system on my mom's 2015 GMC Terrain.

If 2014 and 2015 vehicles still aren't including it how are they going to replace FM with HD only? That would mean probably 90% or more of the vehicles on the road would no longer have radio access. Until it becomes a standard feature that is installed in most new vehicles like SiriusXM I don't see how it can gain much traction.

Agreed! It's a "who's in bed with whom" deployment situation right now, and growth is likely negative at this time for today vs. when it was a new technology.

If the people behind HD Radio had any sense at all, they'd give away the receive chipsets. Otherwise, I don't see it ever going anywhere. I think it speaks volumes about its popularity (rather, lack thereof) that not one of the big-time, hardcore, hacking collectives has ever bothered to reverse-engineer it.

Scott Greczkowski said:

It's doubtful. They are trying to make as much money as they can. And remember is NOT HD. That's just an advertising term.

Do you even have a hd radio bluegrass?

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Im sure Dish will put out an app for that.

I have one in my Yamaha surround receiver at home. I will occasionally listen to the jazz subchannel from Tulsa University, but I rarely use it since I don't listen to much radio at home unless it's a football game or I'm cleaning house . None of my vehicles have it, so I mainly use SiriusXm in the car.

Tulsa University has two stations 50,000 watt KWGS with Public Radio on 89.5-1, Jazz on 89.5-2 and World Radio on 89.5-3. TU launched a second station 5000 watt KWTU in 2004 on 88.7-1 classical as the State first digital HD station and they have added American Songbook on 88.7-2

It's all about economics. Radio is a business, needing return on investment just like widgets, ice cream, or autos. Has to be derived by good advertising base.

Bluegras you also refer to a "community" radio startup if what I read is correct being one you wanted for HD? (or was that just for streaming?) If this is a full-power station, there's an EXTREMELY REMOTE, SMALL hope of HD, but if it's truly "community" radio as in "LPFM", no chance. Community-run stations have a way of begging for money, and VERY low budgets. (not to mention a 100 watts at 100 feet tall tower limit on range.) I have nothing against them, but I will say WE didn't have the luxury of crying "no money" when we resurrected our station like MANY LPFM's do. I didn't research any farther what SIZE of signal this future station to which you refer will be.

Seeing the LPFMs' begging gets old quick. If you want to be a broadcaster, you have to TRY to anticipate your costs going in to it. It's taken us 10 years to enlarge our AM, add an FM translator for our county (only) then go AM stereo for reasons of public relations, THEN add streaming of the AM product. Along the way there was the new studio roof, new well, new Antenna Tuning networks and huts out back under each broadcasting tower, $2500 expense for the FEDERALLY mandated new EAS system with NO reimbursement or low interest loans, .etc..... It's not a game for those who think radio is a license to print money. It's a LIFESTYLE when properly done, not a "job" and it carries with it all the benefits in the community when done well, and all the gray hair and antacids, too.

Back to the point....FM's have to have quite a bit of power for the HD to get their signal out in the first place. I'd bet more than a paycheck the use of the word "community" puts the HD issue for them to bed. Just a startup is expensive, let alone another 10 grand for a USED HD exciter plus the HD licensing of around 10 grand minimum to start.

Even if this new station is clear channel owned, I'd not hold out hope for HD broadcasting. Whatever doesn't make CC money, (anything "optional") is not going to happen. They just "financed" their huge operation by selling off a whole bunch of (radio) towers for immediate cash, then leasing them all back for the stations! BAD move. Can't believe it's even allowed! They lost TONS of collateral for their BILLIONS of debt doing it!

But, I digress. If it was streaming you want for this new station, there's TONS of good companies out there. They'll find one. If it's Clear Channel owned, or...if they take the "easy" way out, they may choose to call "I heart media" streaming (anyone can) and pay THEM to do it.....but again, WHY would anyone want to pay their competition!!?? It's not that tough to stream independently AND be carried by Tune-IN and other services that REstream services.

Okay. If it's 7 to 10 miles, licensed, it's LPFM. That means NO commercials, only underwriting (no calls to action like "come in and see us" or "come to our sale" ...no mention of brands unless they're in the NAME of the underwriting like "Town X Ford" and no comparisons of product brands in the revenue stream) and DEFINITELY no HD. You are correct, being on the web will help, but that will also need promoting BIG time, and will cost them royalties, so hopefully they've worked that into the equation.

Don't believe everything you hear. Your local station probably just doesn't want to admit they don't want to PAY royalties. I've not met a network yet (except for sports like MLB, NFL, etc) which will not allow streaming. We easily got permission from CBS, CNBC, Osgood, and ALL our syndicated shows to carry them on the stream, even Twilight Zone Radio Dramas, Retro Stars, and others! Even satellite-provided music networks for small town stations allow streaming! It's a matter of the logistics of logging the listener hours, songs to report (if more than 27,777 hours listened totally in a year you HAVE TO) and sending in payments and reports every month.

We stream because we went INTO it knowing we had to sell "X" amount of sponsorships of streaming to recoup our costs, and it's actually become an income. But, you can't just throw the dart at the wall and hope for the best. There's the software, the bandwidth, the royalties, and the time invested by someone to track it all. Luckily, since we have exceeded our "small broadcaster" status, we have an engineer who is writing a raspberry pi program to do our reports, needing only my signature....

bluegras said:

do you think the fcc will require radio stations to go hd in the near distant future?is there a website where you can find all the new HD Radio channels being added?

http://hdradio.com/

thanks


Allen bluegras

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nope. No way
Where I am there are NO HD stations at all. Nothing within 60 miles of here

And that site is so outdated. Lets use Minneapolis on that list
93X is not in HD
93X-HD2 dropped it about 4 months ago

102.9 is no longer in HD
102.9-HD2 (830 WCCO) is obviously no longer on there

107.9-HD3 is 80's (not Pride Radio)

1130 & 1440 AM arent in HD

bluegras said:

does it sound better on the fm side of hd radio instead of am hd?and where can you purchase this hd radio i cannot find it anywhere.
http://hdradio.com/get-a-radio/home-radio/sparc-fm-radio-dual-alarm

thanks

Allen bluegras

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Scott Greczkowski said:

It sounds better then regular FM but still not as good as a CD and the range is MUCH smaller then the regular FM signal. If you are not near the towers you might find the HD signal cutting in and out, which gets annoying quick.

Remember HD does not stand for High Definition, it is just a brand name they use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio

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And Scott even if you are near the towers they use bandwidth sharing and you may keep one subchannel but lose another
When I am in Minneapolis there is a station (KQQL) that has 2 subchannels
HD2 is "Alt 93.3"
HD3 is 80's (which makes little sense as KQQL is mainly 80's)

I get KQQL-HD1 all the time. HD2 99% of the time. HD3 will drop constantly

One thing that I have seen in major areas is companies like Clear Channel...oh wait...I Heart Media buy up translator stations and throw their HD subchannels on there. Thats what they did in Minneapolis. They bought a bunch of low powered stations or construction permits from companies like Air 1 and K-Love and say "we'll buy it and in return we'll put your station on a subchannel and maybe on a translator." They get the FCC to move the CP or tower to the highest point in Minneapolis (IDS) building

The downsides? Folks in the outer burbs (like when I lived in the cities) lose ability to get distant FM stations because of these stupid translators. And it clogs the FM band. And how many different frequencies do you need? Great example is Talk 1130 AM. They are on
1130AM (50K blowtorch)
100.3-HD2
103.5 (a translator)

The repeater screws up 103.5 out of Mankato (50 miles away). They are doing the same thing with 96.7

in fact, northpine.com has a great post about it

iHeartMedia is preparing for the launch of its third FM translator with full Twin Cities coverage, adding to its five full-power signals in the market.

Educational Media Foundation's K273BH/102.5 (Fridley), which transmits from the IDS Center, has stopped carrying EMF's "Air1" Christian Hits network and is now running a looped announcement telling listeners to tune to 92.9 to hear "Air1." W225AP/92.9 has been running "Air1" since moving its transmitter from St. Paul to EMF's site at the Wells Fargo building in Minneapolis earlier this year.

K273BH's programming is originating on the HD3 signal of iHeartMedia's KTCZ/97.1 (Minneapolis), which shows up as "Hot 102.5" on HD radios. That slogan goes along with a Twitter handle and domain name first reported by RadioInsight last week. KTCZ-HD2 originates the "Air1" network for W225AP.

iHeartMedia also programs the "Alt 93.3" format on EMF's W227BF/93.3, originating on the HD2 channel of KQQL/107.9 (Anoka-Minneapolis), and simulcasts its KTLK News/Talk format on K278BP/103.5, which it bought from EMF. It has also applied to move W244CS/96.7 from the southeast metro to the IDS Center

radio said:

Finally: on the comment regarding AM revitalization, THIS is where local residents' voices are needed to encourage local stations to do more locally, and be less of a jukebox or talk-box. When AM's are thrown away as the "bastard child" of bigger FM's and just "anything" is thrown on them to keep stations on the air, there's no direct involvement in the communities they serve, therefore, the guilty operators who do this are the ones harming AM the most. Put intriguing programming on an AM, be "in touch" with the audience, and a station can succeed and be interesting to it's listeners. NO technology can save AM. It's at it's highest and best use now. Sad part is, most AM's are not operated to their full (technological) potential. AM can sound EXCELLENT if done properly. Badly maintained transmission systems, and REALLY BAD AM sections in new radios are to blame for any reputaiton for "inferior sound" that AM may have. What AM needs is good owner/operators who care and are capable of doing what radio was MEANT to do in programming and in engineering. I do commend FCC Commissioner Pai for his efforts on behalf of AM operators and their concerns, however! Community voices TO local stations in writing are very important, as they are kept by the station in the FCC public file.

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I agree!
Locally here there are 4 AM stations that are considered "local"
2 are the same thing (NBC Sports). They overlap during the day but not at night (they're 30 miles apart and drop to low power at night). The local one use to be big band until being bought out by Red Rock Radio out of Fargo. And you'll get a kick out of it. It USE to be in AM Stereo (dont know if it still is). Its KKIN AM 930 Aitkin, MN. They didnt mess with the FM station (94.3 same call sign). Still Satellite fed classic Country (Jones then dial global now whatever its called)
1 is sports (I think Fox Sports)
1 is news

The best example I see regionally is in St Cloud, MN. Tri-County Broadcasting is a locally owned company that runs local formats on 4 of the 5 stations. No satellite feed except for news
540 AM "The Goat" Album Rock (LOVE IT! but its only 250 watts and at night clashes with CBC Regina)
800 AM Classic Country (listen to it a lot)
1010 AM Big Band/Adult Standards (they have NASCAR on it)
101.7 FM Rock. Classic and Hard Rock

660 is a ESPN Radio affiliate but they have lots of local college games on there
All AM stations are on subchanels oF 101.7 (except 660)